"Scientific" Dreams Of Travel To Stars Shattered: Mysterious Force Pulls Back NASA Probe In Deep Space

On Fri, 06 Oct 2006 19:16:38 -0400, raven1
wrote:

Sorry, dearheart, every step "science" takes goes to proving
the existence of an Intelligent Designer.

For example?

For example, Brahma.

On Fri, 6 Oct 2006 16:37:05 -0400 "jonathan" said
the following in alt.atheism and I was immediately reminded of 1,000
Chinchillas singing Handel's "Messiah" for some reason...

"G. L. Bradford" wrote in message
om...

"jonathan" wrote in message
. ..




Interstellar travel is a waste of time, the only thing 'out there'
is the past.


You are kidding, aren't you?


Of course not.

It's a simple matter of finding the proper relationship between
time and humanity. For instance...

When we look out into space at great distances we see
the past. Travelling there, even at high rates of speed, will
take us to a place that is /unknowable/ in advance
in this way.

Looking at my computer screen from a distance of about 30 inches I'm
looking into the past. It still takes time for the light of the
monitor to reach my eyes.

We go because it is there.

We go because there are new resources, and places to live and thrive.

We go because it is our nature.

Returning, even at high rates of speed, will take us to our own
future, which is also a place that is /unknowable/ in advance
in this way.

So? I start driving tonight to visit my friends in New York. The
trip will take me maybe five, six days. I cannot know what NYC will
be like when i get there. I cannot gurantee that NYC will be there,
or that I won't encounter some event on the trip that will delay or
even stop me.

Is that reason enough not to go?

Science is all about understanding reality so that we can build
a better present and future.

I'd remove the second clause from that.

Travelling is not science, it is ...../GUESSING/ about our future.
Notice I define scientific efforts to be about knowledge, NOT guesswork.
This is NOT a subtle distinction. Turning our scientific efforts
into guesswork takes us back, not forward.

You do realize some great science starts with both guesses and
voyages, right? Neptune was found because several people guessed that
oddities in Uranus' orbit were caused by another body. Darwin
fromulated his theories on evolution while on the voyage.

Science is about taking the guesswork out of our future, NOT
turning our future into random pot-luck guesswork.

Again, science sometimes requires guesses and counter-intuitive leaps.

So how do we best understand our present reality, in order
to build a better future?

ONLY by imagining the future, the /ideal future/, can we draw
a path from the present to the future we need and desire.
We have to know where it is we wish to be, before
we can take even the very first step. Unless of course
you believe science to be about randomness and
guessing.

I suspect that you don't know how real science works. It is hardly an
orderly affair, filled with logical goals. That's engineering. Real
science is messy and chaotic. You cannot predict a discovery, and when
you make a breakthrough, it usually opens up a dozen more questions.

Traveling to find out about reality, and our existence, is
not worthy of being called science and is a step backwards.

How else do you gather data? We had no solid facts about the Moon,
other than its existence, until we sent men and probes and anaylized
the material they brought back. You learn about volcanoes by going to
them, oberversing them taking merasurements.. not by sitting around an
ivory tower!

Evenb physics requires that scientists get out an do things.

Imagination discovers the path needed to find a better future!!!

How do you make dreams real without relevant data?

There is nothing 'out there' for us except the past.
The answers to our future reside within.

What is "out there"? The entire frigging universe.

Take that logic apart if you can.

Easily done.
--

Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Jason Gastrich is praying for me on 8 January 2011

"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the
source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a
stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as
good as dead: his eyes are closed." - Albert Einstein

"2738 Dead" wrote in message
...

Why, it must the the aether!

Actually strangely enough, one of the current theories to explain this does
draw upon some of the old aether theories.


--
Putsch: leading America to asymetric warfare since 2001

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Pay your taxes so the rich don't have to.
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a.a. #2211 -- Bryan Zepp Jamieson

"Roy Jose Lorr" wrote in message
. ..
raven1 wrote:



Non-answer noted.

You mean you have nothing to show that my assertion is wrong.

Oh bull****. It just goes to prove the Flying Spaghetti Monster is behind
ita..

And I've provided as much proof for my assertion as you have.

Good night.

On Sat, 07 Oct 2006 03:22:48 GMT, "Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)"
wrote:


"2738 Dead" wrote in message
.. .

Why, it must the the aether!

Actually strangely enough, one of the current theories to explain this does
draw upon some of the old aether theories.

The old aether theories were based on the notion that if light is
waves, it must need a medium to travel through.


--
Putsch: leading America to asymetric warfare since 2001

Not dead, in jail, or a slave? Thank a liberal!
Pay your taxes so the rich don't have to.
For the finest in liberal/leftist commentary,
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For news feed (free, 10-20 articles a day)
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For essays (donations accepted, 2 articles/week)
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a.a. #2211 -- Bryan Zepp Jamieson

--
Putsch: leading America to asymetric warfare since 2001

Not dead, in jail, or a slave? Thank a liberal!
Pay your taxes so the rich don't have to.
For the finest in liberal/leftist commentary,
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For news feed (free, 10-20 articles a day)
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a.a. #2211 -- Bryan Zepp Jamieson

"jonathan" wrote in message
.. .

"G. L. Bradford" wrote in message
m...

"jonathan" wrote in message
. ..




Interstellar travel is a waste of time, the only thing 'out there'
is the past.


You are kidding, aren't you?


Of course not.

It's a simple matter of finding the proper relationship between
time and humanity. For instance...

When we look out into space at great distances we see
the past. Travelling there, even at high rates of speed, will
take us to a place that is /unknowable/ in advance
in this way.

Returning, even at high rates of speed, will take us to our own
future, which is also a place that is /unknowable/ in advance
in this way.

Science is all about understanding reality so that we can build
a better present and future.

Travelling is not science, it is ...../GUESSING/ about our future.
Notice I define scientific efforts to be about knowledge, NOT guesswork.
This is NOT a subtle distinction. Turning our scientific efforts
into guesswork takes us back, not forward.

Science is about taking the guesswork out of our future, NOT
turning our future into random pot-luck guesswork.

So how do we best understand our present reality, in order
to build a better future?

ONLY by imagining the future, the /ideal future/, can we draw
a path from the present to the future we need and desire.
We have to know where it is we wish to be, before
we can take even the very first step. Unless of course
you believe science to be about randomness and
guessing.

Traveling to find out about reality, and our existence, is
not worthy of being called science and is a step backwards.

Imagination discovers the path needed to find a better future!!!

There is nothing 'out there' for us except the past.
The answers to our future reside within.


Take that logic apart if you can.



Jonathan

-1+1=0. From past (-1) via future (+1) to present.(0). Sure our relative
relationship to ever star and galaxy is that of them being seen to be
between us and a most distant horizon of time, all of them being in that
direction going away from us. But so are we in that same direction when
viewed from any other "here and now" in the universe. Then we are a part of
that background relative to any other here and now. Our line of travel,
relative to one of them and not to us, is then one of 'there and then' (a
past) to 'here and now' (the present), or -1+1=0.

You've either been joking around or you've just proved that you should
definitely not give up your day job for any even honorary position in
cosmology and physics, but especially not in Logic.

GLB

Sound of Trumpet wrote:
http://www.rense.com/general20/probe.htm



Mysterious Force Pulls Back NASA Probe In Deep Space

That's us. We need it back for the museum, now that we've perfected
warp drive. Guys, just wait `till you see the Black Starships. Those
things would scare the Terminator.

-Cap'n Panama Floyd
EAC (ntie,oc) Space Command.

Sound of Trumpet wrote:
http://www.rense.com/general20/probe.htm



Mysterious Force Pulls Back NASA Probe In Deep Space

That's us. We need it back for the museum, now that we've perfected
warp drive. Guys, just wait `till you see the Black Starships. Those
things would scare the Terminator.

-Cap'n Panama Floyd
EAC (ntie,oc) Space Command.

Sound of Trumpet wrote:
http://www.rense.com/general20/probe.htm



Mysterious Force Pulls Back NASA Probe In Deep Space

That's us. We need it back for the museum, now that we've perfected
warp drive. Guys, just wait `till you see the Black Starships. Those
things would scare the Terminator.

-Cap'n Panama Floyd
EAC (ntie,oc) Space Command.

Ingot wrote:
wrote
..
Well, since these space probes are apparently being stopped by an
invisible hand, either it's God, or we'll have to blame Adam Smith for
it!
..
Personally I think God's had would have a greater impact than a few
MPH/century.

Well, of course it _could_, if He *wanted* it to!

On further reflection, though, having it look like an invisible hand
could just be a clever ruse, aimed at getting me to look among Smiths
at the wrong end of the alphabet.

Since this is an attempt at _sabotaging_ attempts at _interstellar
travel_, perhaps we shouldn't be looking in the direction of Adam
Smith... but instead, we should be suspecting... Zachary.

John Savard