Is NASA a US "Defence Agency"?

On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 14:40:11 -0800 (PST), rhw007
wrote:

People seem to forget that King georgie Jr.'s Daddy had ALSO PROMISED
a "Return to the Moon"...he didn't even START the process while he was
in office..no plans...no 'directives'....etc.


Actually, he did. He restarted the National Space Council and put
Vice President Quayle in harge of it. The Space Exploration
Initiative (SEI) did several studies, including First Lunar Outpost.
A page on the can be found he

http://www.nss.org/settlement/moon/FLO.html

..... although a simple search will probably find more.

Unfortunately, Congress never got past the $500 billion price tag, or
at the very least never grasped the idea that that would be over 30
years. Congress never funded SEI, and Clinton crushed it and
disbanded the space council once he was in office.

So you can't blame "Clinton" for squashing that attempt....because
Daddy George NEVER made an HONEST attempt to set the plan into motion.


Wrong.


Same goes true for King Georgie Jr...He also wants to "Go Back to the
Moon"...he's made some proposals...but where's the money going???


Part of SEI's problem, I think, was that since Bush Sr. didn't have a
second term, the program didn't get a fighting chance to get started
on some hardware. But this time, they are developing the basic
"building blocks," Ares and Orion. NASA publishes updates on this
page:

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/co...ain/index.html

Of course the question is, what if Billary or some other Democrat
succeeds Bush? The conventional wisdom seems to be that the Orion
vehicle and the Ares 1 booster will be built, but the rest of the VSE
will be scuttled. Whether or not they still do the Ares V heavy
lifter depends on what they decide to do with Orion. But another
peice of conventional wisdom is they will do SOMETHING with it
because, in theory, no president wants to go down in history as the
one that scrapped the space program. Of course, someone could always
come along and prove that wrong ..... shudder While it is
encouraging that the following press release ....

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/r.../view/?id=3566

..... says that if elected, Mrs. Clinton will "speed development,
testing, and deployment of next-generation launch and crew exploration
vehicles to replace the aging Space Shuttle," this is Billary Clinton
we're talking about; actions will not only speak louder than words,
they will be the only thing that mean anything. She might proceed
with Orion, or scrap it and do something else, or repeal that National
Aeronautics and Space Act and say "To heck with conventional wisdom."
We wouldn't know what a Billary adminstration would do until we get
there.


..... There is NO 'Master Plan' to get us back to the Moon and onto Mars
before the other nations get there. Russia, China and India will be
getting there before we do.


Maybe they will. Maybe we will. Maybe there will be a multinational
effort. Maybe I'll sleep with a supermodel tonight. Who knows?


..... Now who's behind the internet spouting truth?...

Didn't Algore invent it?



----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

Michael Gallagher wrote:

Congress never funded SEI, and Clinton crushed it and
disbanded the space council once he was in office...
since Bush Sr. didn't have a
second term, the program didn't get a fighting chance to get started
on some hardware...

Read Thor Hogan's "Mars Wars" at

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca...2007032394.pdf

For better or worse, SEI was dead for all practical purposes by
mid-1991, 18 months before Clinton took office. Sorry if that doesn't
suit your polticial preferences.

On Nov 16, 5:40 pm, rhw007 wrote:
People seem to forget that King georgie Jr.'s Daddy had ALSO PROMISED
a "Return to the Moon"...he didn't even START the process while he was
in office..no plans...no 'directives'....etc.

I have been saying that for years. To quote, Chambers Encyclopedic
Guide, "Space Exploration", pg. 137:
Return to the Moon
In 1989, US President George Bush gave notice that it was time for the
USA to begin planning new missions to the Moon with the aim of
establishing a lunar base.

Geez, how come W can't piggy-back off his dad's orginal plan? Maybe
because there was none. So why do we feel like his son is going to do
something that both have said they would do but no action has been
taken? Can you say throw a bone to Texas without any other plan?


So you can't blame "Clinton" for squashing that attempt....because
Daddy George NEVER made an HONEST attempt to set the plan into motion.

Same goes true for King Georgie Jr...He also wants to "Go Back to the
Moon"...he's made some proposals...but where's the money going???

That fark hole of Iraq where he lied to the people of the world....but
more importantly...lied to the soldiers he sent there to die. Look
what happened when He told the DIPLOMATS...those beaurocratic chicken
droppings who followed everything King Georgie Jr. said to do.....same
with the Military Leaders...those who stood against him...were fired.

There is NO 'Master Plan' to get us back to the Moon and onto Mars
before the other nations get there. Russia, China and India will be
getting there before we do.

And all either Russia or China has to do to thwart ANY attempt we may
want to do in that area is to tell the World back we want our US IOU'
paid in GOLD ... NOW.

That's over 2 TRILLION dollars we have outstanding in National
Debt...most of it we owe to China and Russia for financing the Iraq
War.

Go to the Moon? Gawd...we can't even cross the Tigres or Eurphrates
Rivers without spending 1 million a day for the one bridge
protection. We have MORE 'mercenaries' in Iraq than regular US
troops...look it up. THAT's were our money is going. And
OIL???,,,HAH...what did you expect electing two oil men....lower
prices for gas???

You forget Rice and her connections to Chevron, but I digress.

Now who's behind the internet spouting truth?....ROAR !!!

You'll only confuse them.

Bob...http://commonsensecentral.net/

On Nov 18, 1:30 pm, Michael Gallagher wrote:
On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 14:40:11 -0800 (PST), rhw007
wrote:

People seem to forget that King georgie Jr.'s Daddy had ALSO PROMISED
a "Return to the Moon"...he didn't even START the process while he was
in office..no plans...no 'directives'....etc.

Actually, he did. He restarted the National Space Council and put
Vice President Quayle in harge of it. The Space Exploration
Initiative (SEI) did several studies, including First Lunar Outpost.
A page on the can be found he

http://www.nss.org/settlement/moon/FLO.html

.... although a simple search will probably find more.

Unfortunately, Congress never got past the $500 billion price tag, or
at the very least never grasped the idea that that would be over 30
years. Congress never funded SEI, and Clinton crushed it and
disbanded the space council once he was in office.

So you can't blame "Clinton" for squashing that attempt....because
Daddy George NEVER made an HONEST attempt to set the plan into motion.

Wrong.

The only mission we had to the moon in decades was Clementine and it
had nothing to do with Bush's plan.

If Bush Sr.'s lunar plan was worth anything his son would have
resurrected it. Not be came up with his own farce, err, vision.


Same goes true for King Georgie Jr...He also wants to "Go Back to the
Moon"...he's made some proposals...but where's the money going???

Part of SEI's problem, I think, was that since Bush Sr. didn't have a
second term, the program didn't get a fighting chance to get started
on some hardware. But this time, they are developing the basic
"building blocks," Ares and Orion. NASA publishes updates on this
page:

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/co...ain/index.html

Of course the question is, what if Billary or some other Democrat
succeeds Bush?

Given the current Bush's lousy leadership even a GOP hack such as
yourself shouldn't be surprized.

The conventional wisdom seems to be that the Orion
vehicle and the Ares 1 booster will be built, but the rest of the VSE
will be scuttled.

Because like his father's plan it isn't worth the paper that it is
printed on.

Whether or not they still do the Ares V heavy
lifter depends on what they decide to do with Orion. But another
peice of conventional wisdom is they will do SOMETHING with it
because, in theory, no president wants to go down in history as the
one that scrapped the space program.

No, no, that is the mentality Nixon used WRT war (Vietnam). A non-
Texas Repubican could easily be the president that kills the space
program as we now know it. Hell, push real hard for commercial
spaceflight, make probes and other unmanned spacecraft the product of
NSF and NOAA, respectively. And turn the manned stuff over to the
military. Hell, the desocialization of NASA by a GOPer sounds totally
foriegn to you?

Of course, someone could always
come along and prove that wrong ..... shudder While it is
encouraging that the following press release ....

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/r.../view/?id=3566

.... says that if elected, Mrs. Clinton will "speed development,
testing, and deployment of next-generation launch and crew exploration
vehicles to replace the aging Space Shuttle," this is Billary Clinton
we're talking about; actions will not only speak louder than words,
they will be the only thing that mean anything.

And for you to act like the Bushes of have done anything related to
action WRT to returning to the moon means that your partisan blindness
is still unchecked.

What is more important that the space programs get implemented or that
the don't get implemented by Billary (as you put it?).

She might proceed
with Orion, or scrap it and do something else, or repeal that National
Aeronautics and Space Act and say "To heck with conventional wisdom."
We wouldn't know what a Billary adminstration would do until we get
there.

Yep, sort of like Bush and 9/11 and then going into Iraq even though
the culprit is in Afghanistan, etc.


..... There is NO 'Master Plan' to get us back to the Moon and onto Mars
before the other nations get there. Russia, China and India will be
getting there before we do.

Maybe they will. Maybe we will. Maybe there will be a multinational
effort. Maybe I'll sleep with a supermodel tonight. Who knows?

Now you're dreaming.

..... Now who's behind the internet spouting truth?...

Didn't Algore invent it?

No, he got the Nobel Prize, tho. Maybe it was partly for creating the
legislation for turning the Internet over to the private sector.

In 2009, Bush will probably do his 1 year lecture circuit and then
have to start jumping out of airplanes to get press coverage like his
old man. At least his old man was smart enough to align himself with
Clinton to get other stuff done as an ex-Prez.

On Nov 19, 8:57 am, Monte Davis wrote:
Michael Gallagher wrote:
Congress never funded SEI, and Clinton crushed it and
disbanded the space council once he was in office...
since Bush Sr. didn't have a
second term, the program didn't get a fighting chance to get started
on some hardware...

Read Thor Hogan's "Mars Wars" at

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca...070031234_2007...

For better or worse, SEI was dead for all practical purposes by
mid-1991, 18 months before Clinton took office. Sorry if that doesn't
suit your polticial preferences.

Face it, when Bush Sr. relied on Dan Quayle for his space plans it was
doomed from the get-go.

Yes, Gallagher is such a passionate conservative he's smacks of a
bleeding heart about it. Or is that "bleating heart"?

On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 11:00:16 -0800 (PST), in a place far, far away,
Eric Chomko made the phosphor on my monitor
glow in such a way as to indicate that:

On Nov 19, 8:57 am, Monte Davis wrote:
Michael Gallagher wrote:
Congress never funded SEI, and Clinton crushed it and
disbanded the space council once he was in office...
since Bush Sr. didn't have a
second term, the program didn't get a fighting chance to get started
on some hardware...

Read Thor Hogan's "Mars Wars" at

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca...070031234_2007...

For better or worse, SEI was dead for all practical purposes by
mid-1991, 18 months before Clinton took office. Sorry if that doesn't
suit your polticial preferences.

Face it, when Bush Sr. relied on Dan Quayle for his space plans it was
doomed from the get-go.

It was NASA, and Dick Truly, who killed SDI. It had nothing to do
with Quayle, you moron.

On Nov 19, 2:06 pm, (Rand Simberg)
wrote:
On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 11:00:16 -0800 (PST), in a place far, far away,
Eric Chomko made the phosphor on my monitor
glow in such a way as to indicate that:





On Nov 19, 8:57 am, Monte Davis wrote:
Michael Gallagher wrote:
Congress never funded SEI, and Clinton crushed it and
disbanded the space council once he was in office...
since Bush Sr. didn't have a
second term, the program didn't get a fighting chance to get started
on some hardware...

Read Thor Hogan's "Mars Wars" at

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca...070031234_2007...

For better or worse, SEI was dead for all practical purposes by
mid-1991, 18 months before Clinton took office. Sorry if that doesn't
suit your polticial preferences.

Face it, when Bush Sr. relied on Dan Quayle for his space plans it was
doomed from the get-go.

It was NASA, and Dick Truly, who killed SDI. It had nothing to do
with Quayle, you moron.

From Dan Quayle's wiki bio:

As Vice President, Quayle was the first chairman of the National Space
Council, a space policy body reestablished by statute in 1988. Shortly
after Bush announced the Space Exploration Initiative, which included
a manned landing on Mars, Quayle was asked his thoughts on sending
humans to Mars. His response was stunning for the number of errors he
made in just a few short sentences. "Mars is essentially in the same
orbit [as earth]....Mars is somewhat the same distance from the Sun,
which is very important. We have seen pictures where there are canals,
we believe, and water. If there is water, that means there is oxygen.
If oxygen, that means we can breathe."

You typed SDI, I was referring to SEI and Quayle's role in it. It
appears that Quayle is not the only moron in this thread, Rand.

I was going to state that VPs are often used to implement a
president's vision of space, etc. It would appear that only Cheny was
clearly NOT picked whereas LBJ for JFK, Quayle for Bush Sr. and Gore
for Clinton actually were. Then I realized that you don't seem to know
the difference between SDI and SEI, so you could hardly know the
difference who to blame for killing either one of them.

Eric

On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 12:04:09 -0800 (PST), in a place far, far away,
Eric Chomko made the phosphor on my monitor
glow in such a way as to indicate that:

On Nov 19, 2:06 pm, (Rand Simberg)
wrote:
On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 11:00:16 -0800 (PST), in a place far, far away,
Eric Chomko made the phosphor on my monitor
glow in such a way as to indicate that:





On Nov 19, 8:57 am, Monte Davis wrote:
Michael Gallagher wrote:
Congress never funded SEI, and Clinton crushed it and
disbanded the space council once he was in office...
since Bush Sr. didn't have a
second term, the program didn't get a fighting chance to get started
on some hardware...

Read Thor Hogan's "Mars Wars" at

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca...070031234_2007...

For better or worse, SEI was dead for all practical purposes by
mid-1991, 18 months before Clinton took office. Sorry if that doesn't
suit your polticial preferences.

Face it, when Bush Sr. relied on Dan Quayle for his space plans it was
doomed from the get-go.

It was NASA, and Dick Truly, who killed SDI. It had nothing to do
with Quayle, you moron.

From Dan Quayle's wiki bio:

snip

You typed SDI, I was referring to SEI and Quayle's role in it.

It was a typo (the two keys are next to each other). I meant SEI.

It appears that Quayle is not the only moron in this thread, Rand.

It only appears that way to the actual only moron in this thread. It
would have been obvious to a non-moron that I was referring to SEI,
since NASA and truly had nothing to do with SDI (though Quayle did--he
was the one who initiated the DC-X program).

I was going to state that VPs are often used to implement a
president's vision of space, etc. It would appear that only Cheny was
clearly NOT picked whereas LBJ for JFK, Quayle for Bush Sr. and Gore
for Clinton actually were.

All of which has nothing to do with what killed SEI. It was Dick
Truly who did so. He even sent his legislative liaison to the Hill to
lobby against it.

On Nov 19, 3:21 pm, (Rand Simberg)
wrote:
On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 12:04:09 -0800 (PST), in a place far, far away,
Eric Chomko made the phosphor on my monitor
glow in such a way as to indicate that:





On Nov 19, 2:06 pm, (Rand Simberg)
wrote:
On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 11:00:16 -0800 (PST), in a place far, far away,
Eric Chomko made the phosphor on my monitor
glow in such a way as to indicate that:

On Nov 19, 8:57 am, Monte Davis wrote:
Michael Gallagher wrote:
Congress never funded SEI, and Clinton crushed it and
disbanded the space council once he was in office...
since Bush Sr. didn't have a
second term, the program didn't get a fighting chance to get started
on some hardware...

Read Thor Hogan's "Mars Wars" at

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca...070031234_2007...

For better or worse, SEI was dead for all practical purposes by
mid-1991, 18 months before Clinton took office. Sorry if that doesn't
suit your polticial preferences.

Face it, when Bush Sr. relied on Dan Quayle for his space plans it was
doomed from the get-go.

It was NASA, and Dick Truly, who killed SDI. It had nothing to do
with Quayle, you moron.

From Dan Quayle's wiki bio:

snip

You typed SDI, I was referring to SEI and Quayle's role in it.

It was a typo (the two keys are next to each other). I meant SEI.

A significant typo given the context of the subject. Perhaps you have
typos all the time? It would explain a lot.


It appears that Quayle is not the only moron in this thread, Rand.

It only appears that way to the actual only moron in this thread. It
would have been obvious to a non-moron that I was referring to SEI,
since NASA and truly had nothing to do with SDI (though Quayle did--he
was the one who initiated the DC-X program).

Yet, Quayle was chairman of the Space Council and if you read the
section that you deleted (you ALWAYS do that when you are wrong, btw)
you will see exactly how he was connected to SEI. (Perhaps Quayle was
just too dumb to kill SEI and Truly was called in.)

I was going to state that VPs are often used to implement a
president's vision of space, etc. It would appear that only Cheny was
clearly NOT picked whereas LBJ for JFK, Quayle for Bush Sr. and Gore
for Clinton actually were.

All of which has nothing to do with what killed SEI. It was Dick
Truly who did so.

Because Dan Quayle didn't know the difference between Mars and a
potato!

He even sent his legislative liaison to the Hill to
lobby against it.

And Bush and Quayle let him? Gee, I guess JFK was lucky Webb liked the
Apollo proposal rather than kill IT like Truly killed SEI.

(Yeah, you make about that much sense).

On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 12:33:36 -0800 (PST), in a place far, far away,
Eric Chomko made the phosphor on my monitor
glow in such a way as to indicate that:


For better or worse, SEI was dead for all practical purposes by
mid-1991, 18 months before Clinton took office. Sorry if that doesn't
suit your polticial preferences.

Face it, when Bush Sr. relied on Dan Quayle for his space plans it was
doomed from the get-go.

It was NASA, and Dick Truly, who killed SDI. It had nothing to do
with Quayle, you moron.

From Dan Quayle's wiki bio:

snip

You typed SDI, I was referring to SEI and Quayle's role in it.

It was a typo (the two keys are next to each other). I meant SEI.

A significant typo given the context of the subject. Perhaps you have
typos all the time? It would explain a lot.

No, it's relatively rare. There is zero significance other than, as I
already noted (apparently you were too stupid to read it) that they
"D" and "E" keys are adjacent.

It appears that Quayle is not the only moron in this thread, Rand.

It only appears that way to the actual only moron in this thread. It
would have been obvious to a non-moron that I was referring to SEI,
since NASA and truly had nothing to do with SDI (though Quayle did--he
was the one who initiated the DC-X program).

Yet, Quayle was chairman of the Space Council and if you read the
section that you deleted (you ALWAYS do that when you are wrong, btw)
you will see exactly how he was connected to SEI.

I never denied that he was connected to SEI, you moron.

(Perhaps Quayle was just too dumb to kill SEI and Truly was called in.)

This is the stupidest thing you've typed yet in this thread.

I was going to state that VPs are often used to implement a
president's vision of space, etc. It would appear that only Cheny was
clearly NOT picked whereas LBJ for JFK, Quayle for Bush Sr. and Gore
for Clinton actually were.

All of which has nothing to do with what killed SEI. It was Dick
Truly who did so.

Because Dan Quayle didn't know the difference between Mars and a
potato!

No, it had absolutely nothing do with with what Dan Quayle knew about
either Mars, or potatoes.

He even sent his legislative liaison to the Hill to
lobby against it.

And Bush and Quayle let him?

How were they supposed to stop him? He got fired for it, you moron.

Gee, I guess JFK was lucky Webb liked the
Apollo proposal rather than kill IT like Truly killed SEI.

(Yeah, you make about that much sense).