German Space Agency Chief Johann Dietrich Woerner wants manned Ariane5 flights and an ESA Space Shuttle

..

a very good news (via raumfahrer.net/forum) from Europe:

the new German space travels' chief Johann Dietrich Woerner wants
independent european manned flights launched with the Ariane5 or with
"an orbital glider, which does not only land like an airplane, would
be best but also like an airplane starts"

http://de.news.yahoo.com/02062007/3/...europaeer.html

so, a small "ESA Space Shuttle" (for cheap and easy LEO flights) could
really born, someday...

or (at least) something like my "arianecev":

http://www.gaetanomarano.it/articles/010arianecev.html

..

gaetanomarano wrote in
ups.com:

http://de.news.yahoo.com/02062007/3/...ef-fordert-rau
mfluege-europaeer.html

so, a small "ESA Space Shuttle" (for cheap and easy LEO flights) could
really born, someday...

Hermes, again? That's what the Ariane V was sized for originally.

--Damon

gaetanomarano wrote:

:
:a very good news (via raumfahrer.net/forum) from Europe:
:
:the new German space travels' chief Johann Dietrich Woerner wants
:independent european manned flights launched with the Ariane5 or with
:"an orbital glider, which does not only land like an airplane, would
:be best but also like an airplane starts"
:
:http://de.news.yahoo.com/02062007/3/...europaeer.html
:
:so, a small "ESA Space Shuttle" (for cheap and easy LEO flights) could
:really born, someday...
:
r (at least) something like my "arianecev":
:
:http://www.gaetanomarano.it/articles/010arianecev.html
:

Yeah, when either of those happen I'll stop ice skating in hell and
come watch the launches...


--
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable
man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore,
all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
--George Bernard Shaw

gaetanomarano wrote:
the new German space travels' chief Johann Dietrich Woerner wants
independent european manned flights launched with the Ariane5 or with
"an orbital glider, which does not only land like an airplane, would
be best but also like an airplane starts"

http://de.news.yahoo.com/02062007/3/...europaeer.html

so, a small "ESA Space Shuttle" (for cheap and easy LEO flights) could
really born, someday...

or (at least) something like my "arianecev":


They tried it with Hermes; they could never get the weight low enough to
make it work without a expendable service module of some sort.

Pat

"Pat Flannery" a écrit dans le message de news:
...


gaetanomarano wrote:
the new German space travels' chief Johann Dietrich Woerner wants
independent european manned flights launched with the Ariane5 or with
"an orbital glider, which does not only land like an airplane, would
be best but also like an airplane starts"

http://de.news.yahoo.com/02062007/3/...europaeer.html

so, a small "ESA Space Shuttle" (for cheap and easy LEO flights) could
really born, someday...

or (at least) something like my "arianecev":


They tried it with Hermes; they could never get the weight low enough to
make it work without a expendable service module of some sort.

Actually, AFAIK, it was the weight of the cabin ejection and recovery system
which killed the design.

frédéric haessig wrote:

Actually, AFAIK, it was the weight of the cabin ejection and recovery system
which killed the design.

That thing got so heavy, so fast, that it was a wonderment to see.
Remember the radiator mess?
One of my earliest postings was about how heavy a "light" spaceplane can
get:

"Yeah, and here, in a nutshell, is the problem that in particular killed
both
Dyna-Soar and Hermes- There are certain things that are needed for any
small
manned shuttle:
1.- Avionics to allow it to fly and land.
2.- Retractable landing gear.
3.- Crew accommodation.
4.- Life support systems for crew.
5.- Thermal control systems, for in-orbit flight.
6.- Reaction control systems, and their fuel, for orbital maneuvering.
And all of these have to be on any shuttle type vehicle regardless of
size... BUT- as the size gets smaller, the weight of these systems does not
drop in proportion to the size- so more and more of the spacecraft's
overall
weight is taken up proportionately by them- Dyna-Soar started out in the
design phase being boosted on a Titan I-but by the time the system was
ready
to go, it was going to take a Titan III to orbit it- damned expensive.
Hermes suffered the same fate; it's cargo bay given up to radiators, and
(just like Dyna-Soar) needing a jettisonable support module to make it work
on orbit...at which point, one has to ask oneself-what exact capability are
we getting that is worth this much expense?
Pat "

On 3 Giu, 02:04, Damon Hill wrote:
Hermes, again? That's what the Ariane V was sized for originally.


I doubt the Hermes program will be resumed since it was only a concept
in its very early steps, also, Mr. Woerner wants a vehicle able to
take off like an airplane (with an SSO-like carrier) to launch their
manned spaceflights from Germany

..

On 3 Giu, 04:02, Fred J. McCall wrote:
Yeah, when either of those happen I'll stop ice skating in hell and
come watch the launches...


Italy and Germany already have (and test on scale-models) two cargo-
only shuttles:

http://www.space-travel.com/reports/...store_999.html

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,1196314,00.html

if these vehicles will work well, build a manned version should be not
so complex to develop since the basic principle are the same (and
successful applied in the Space Shuttle)

..

On 3 Giu, 08:50, Pat Flannery wrote:
They tried it with Hermes; they could never get the weight low enough to
make it work without a expendable service module of some sort.


I believe, this time, an european manned program should use an
european CAPSULE launched with Ariane5 and/or a small SHUTTLE launched
with an SSO-like carrier

..

On 3 Giu, 15:09, "frédéric haessig" wrote:
Actually, AFAIK, it was the weight of the cabin ejection and recovery system
which killed the design


a newly designed small shuttle could use lighter materials and should
be not launched with the Ariane5

however, the latest versions of the Ariane5 are better (than those in
the Hermes design era) since they are able to carry up to 21 mT to LEO

..