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#271
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Gravitation and Maxwell's Electrodynamics, BOUNDARY CONDITIONS
"Franz Heymann" wrote in message ...
"Aleksandr Timofeev" wrote in message om... "Franz Heymann" wrote in message ... "Aleksandr Timofeev" wrote in message om... [snip] Note the title of the thread. Alexsandr wishes to treat the interesting absorption and emission phenomenon as "boundary conditions". You has missed from attention the very relevant detail. "Enslaving" of electromagnetic waves by SUBSTANCE is possible only in quantum nonlinear processes of transformation of electromagnetic energy of electromagnetic waves. This is well and good, as wave mathematics allows one to do some very powerful things that descibe the behaviour of large populations of particles. Next, in typical bar room fashion, he claims that light is *not* comprised of particles, and photons are mere illusions. That light is truly not comprised of particles, but is completely wave only for its entire existance. And that this is the sum total of truth. He has been challenged to provide a wave-only observable phenomenon, and has failed. Self-interference is displayed by all particles, so that is a failing of particle-only models (more correctly particle-as-billiard-ball models). Thanks for the update. Ye gods, he was blethering about this a year ago when I decided to cease posting here. In that case we shall be delighted to read your interpretation of an interference in a VLBI interferometer from a "photon" point of view. Has he really made no attempt to learn something in the intervening time? Freedom of religious conscience is a private affair of the believer. So now I ask you... What is it about "wave only" and "particle with radial extents" that you find similar, Franz? David, I genuinely don't understand your question. However, I am totally comfortable with the following collection of thoughts: The photon is a particle. Its evolution in space and time is governed, as are the evolutions of all other particles, by wave functions which obey the rules of quantum mechanics. Newton's laws are only approximations which are as near as dammit true in the macroscopic world. (I am not taking into account general relativistic effects in this) The statistical behaviour of vast assemblies of photons all sharing the same state is determined by Maxwell's theory of EM. Freedom of religious conscience is a private affair of the believer. In that case we shall be delighted to read your interpretation of an interference in a VLBI interferometer from a "photon" point of view. Have you ever heard of the correspondence principle? Well, apply it to the VLBI, since that instrument operates in the classical domain. Result: The behaviour of the VLBI may be analysed by the use of the classical equations, i.e.Maxwell's Equations. That is eminently more sensible than trying to model the simultaneous behaviour of unbelievably vast numbers of photons I suppose, that in this place you, Franz Heymann, contradict yourselves: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...dial.pipex.com ================================================== ============== From: "franz heymann" Newsgroups: sci.physics Subject: Photon Wave-Particle Duality Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 19:19:17 +0100 Aleksandr Timofeev wrote in message om... "franz heymann" wrote in message m... [snip] 1. The structure factor of photons has been determined by more than one group of experimenters. It is consistent with zero radius. [snip] 2. But you froget that a whole century has passed in the mean time and that no prediction made by quantum mechanics has ever been proved wrong in any experimental test. Franz Heymann You can play with a virtual radio interferometer. Main ideas of the VLBI radio interferometer a http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...g .google.com If you will manage to explain a principle of operation of this type of interferometer from the photon point of view, then: I shall believe in existence of photons, and I shall eat my tie or hat. --------------------------------------- [Snip] You used too many words in a very repetitve way, so I snipped all of them I hope you have either a hat or a tie to eat, because here is the explanation to your problem :- Firstly, the wave has nothing to do with the size of a photon. The wave function allows one to calculate various probabilities associated with the detection of a photon. Secondly, it is an observable fact that the wave function of radio frequency photons emitted by an astronomical object can have a non zero amplitude at any of the detectors of a large baseline interferometer. In fact, it expands radially outwards from the source as a spherical wave. Thirdly, photons are bosons, which means that any number of them can share the same wavefunction. Fourthly, a macroscopic radio wave is the wavefunction of an extremely large assembly of photons, all coherently sharing the same wave function. Detecting one photon at one of the antennae simultaneously with the detection of another (coherent) photon at another antenna is then possible. Fifthly, in the classical limit, the behaviour of such a coherent assembly of photons has been proven to tend to just the behaviour one would expect from an application of Maxwell's equations. Now get the frying pan ready and prepare your tie or hat for eating. Bon appetit. Franz Heymann ================================================== ============== Now Franz Heymann, I want to listen to yours FAIRY TALES of connection between: 1. a WAVE FUNCTION ("of an extremely large assembly of photons") 2. and ELECTROMAGNETIC WAVES (an application of Maxwell's equations). They are essentially the same thing. " Fourthly, a macroscopic radio wave is the wavefunction of an extremely large assembly of photons, all coherently sharing the same wave function. Detecting one photon at one of the antennae simultaneously with the detection of another (coherent) photon at another antenna is then possible. " Yours idea Franz about equivalence of a shared WAVE FUNCTION for "photons" and electromagnetic wave physically IS ABSURD. The wave of probability (WAVE FUNCTION) spread in space similarly to electromagnetic waves does not exist in the Nature. This extremely CRASY speculative chimera could be born in Franz Heymann head only. ;^) " Anyone who can prove that "the wave of probability (WAVE FUNCTION) spread in space similarly to electromagnetic waves " has a sure fire ticket to Stockholm to collect his Nobel Prize." Bob Kolker I will say no more on this topic for now, so you are welcome to a field day slating me if you wish. I "wish." You did not succeed I "wish." again. ;^) I have no further interest in bantering with you at present, since I have made myself clear as long ago as the time I produced those snippets which you quoted without understanding their content Franz Heymann Now get the frying pan ready and prepare your tie or hat for eating. Bon appetit. Aleksandr Timofeev |
#272
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Gravitation and Maxwell's Electrodynamics, BOUNDARY CONDITIONS
Dear Aleksandr Timofeev:
"Aleksandr Timofeev" wrote in message om... \(formerly\)" dlzc1.cox@net wrote in message news:9O1Db.10727$gN.6084@fed1read05... .... He has been challenged to provide a wave-only observable phenomenon, and has failed. Sorry, You "has failed", not me. And you fail again to sustantiate what amounts to a claim that you have supplied a workable wave-only explanation of the photoelectric effect. I've seen hand waving, but no qualitative stuff. Self-interference is displayed by all particles, Please David prove this for VLBI. Show that the Earth provides a diffraction pattern? You have some film on the Moon of which I am not aware? You ask the silliest questions. " So now I ask you... What is it about " only Alby's Demon "photon" " for VLBI phenomenon? I am not interested in a further distraction. You wish to consider the emission and absorption of photons as a "boundary condition". Proceed to do so. Do not claim that it is the whole truth, as this is not so. David A. Smith |
#274
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Gravitation and Maxwell's Electrodynamics, BOUNDARY CONDITIONS
Dear Aleksandr,
This is just what is fine in physics that everyone can go his own way he wishes. The experience shows, many go, few come - just who dig into the deep essence of phenomena. Why I persuade you! ;-) Happy New year to you! May I wish you great success, much happiness, and Putin and Co to tighten your belts not so much. ;-) In the New year night I will drink our matchless vodka with traditional mushrooms to you and all colleagues in the newsgroups. Kindly remark, this is second time when I'm clinking my glass at computer with you. Though small, but already date. ;-) Sergey. |
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