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Elon Musk other ideas:)



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 19th 13, 02:41 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Bob Haller
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Default Elon Musk other ideas:)

http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_te...o k_like.html


800 MPH transit
  #2  
Old July 19th 13, 01:15 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Jeff Findley[_2_]
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Default Elon Musk other ideas:)

In article ,
says...

http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_te...o k_like.html


800 MPH transit


Idea has been around for a long time. Unfortunately, transportation
projects this big tend to be very conservative in an attempt to avoid
rising costs and stretched schedules. It would, however, leapfrog the
rest of the world's high speed rail service. That would be a *good
thing* since the US has, to date, mostly refused to implement high speed
rail.


The current state of passenger rail transportation in the US is
absolutely pathetic compared to Europe, Japan, and even China.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_rail_by_country

Note that the US is only mentioned on this page because it has exactly
*one* high speed rail line which runs from Washington D.C., through New
York City, to Boston. On top of that, it has severe limitations
compared to "true" high speed rail found elsewhere in the world (quote
from link):

On average, the line is not as fast as other high-speed rail
lines as it shares its tracks with lower speed passenger and
freight service. Unlike other high-speed rail lines, the
Northeast Corridor is the only high-speed rail line in the
world with grade crossings; there are eleven such crossings
between New Haven, Connecticut and Boston, Massachusetts.

So, the US has one "high speed" rail line, but it's screwed it up so
badly, it's pathetic compared to the rest of the world's high speed
rail.

Jeff
--
"the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would
magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper
than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in
and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer
  #3  
Old July 21st 13, 07:03 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Robert Love
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Default Elon Musk other ideas:)

On 2013-07-19 12:15:31 +0000, Jeff Findley said:


The current state of passenger rail transportation in the US is
absolutely pathetic compared to Europe, Japan, and even China.


Why would we want rail? What is the cost of the Amtrak run between
New York & Washington DC? About $200. How often does it run? How
many places can you get on & off the train? Only at one place in each
city.

Contrast with new busses. $40 trip. Can catch several per day and
from several locations. They are fairly clean and some have WiFi.

Rail is for cargo here in the US.


  #4  
Old July 21st 13, 08:40 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Bob Haller
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Default Elon Musk other ideas:)

high speed rail should use exclusive right of way, no grade crossing or sharing with low speed rail. these hurt top speeds a lot.

the amtrak high speed line is limited to 150 mph in selected areas, other areas are slower.

rail has advantage you can get off and on in citys, rather than travel to country areas for airports.

so just how long does your 40 buck bus ride take???

musk high speed tube travel can be 800 MPH

  #5  
Old July 21st 13, 10:12 PM posted to sci.space.policy
jacob navia[_5_]
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Default Elon Musk other ideas:)

Le 21/07/13 20:03, Robert Love a écrit :
On 2013-07-19 12:15:31 +0000, Jeff Findley said:


The current state of passenger rail transportation in the US is
absolutely pathetic compared to Europe, Japan, and even China.


Why would we want rail?


1) Speed. High speed trains go at 300 Km /hour (186miles/hour).
Cars/busses can never attain that speed
2) Confort in long trips: Trains have restaurants/toilets and
MUCH more space than busses.
3) Security; Train accidents here in Europe are very rare. Much
lower than cars or busses.
4) Less pollution since trains use less energy per person
transported

Busses aren't used much here in Europe. Slow, inconfortable,
risky and very polluting.

A network of high speed trains
goes through most of the continent, and many more are planned.


  #6  
Old July 21st 13, 11:21 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Greg \(Strider\) Moore
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Default Elon Musk other ideas:)

"Robert Love" wrote in message
news:2013072113031928080-rblove@airmailnet...

On 2013-07-19 12:15:31 +0000, Jeff Findley said:


The current state of passenger rail transportation in the US is
absolutely pathetic compared to Europe, Japan, and even China.


Why would we want rail? What is the cost of the Amtrak run between New
York & Washington DC? About $200.


Rail in general, hardly. Often under $100.
HSR - varies depends on when you book and time of day.

How often does it run?


Pretty much every hour, often two trains an hour.
How many places can you get on & off the train? Only at one place in each
city.

Contrast with new busses. $40 trip.


For a smaller, far more cramped seat that you're basically stuck in in the
entire time. Can't get up and walk around.
Stuck in local traffic.

Can catch several per day and from several locations. They are fairly
clean and some have WiFi.


Several a day vs 3 dozen or so from NYP-WAS and a number beyond in both
directions.

And all trains on the NEC have WiFi.

Rail is for cargo here in the US.


Tell that to the ever increasing number of people riding the rails.

Tell that to the folks in Virginia who have taken to their new trains like
ducks to water.







--
Greg D. Moore http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/
CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses. http://www.quicr.net

  #7  
Old July 22nd 13, 04:43 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Orval Fairbairn
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Default Elon Musk other ideas:)

In article ,
Fred J. McCall wrote:

jacob navia wrote:

Le 21/07/13 20:03, Robert Love a écrit :
On 2013-07-19 12:15:31 +0000, Jeff Findley said:


The current state of passenger rail transportation in the US is
absolutely pathetic compared to Europe, Japan, and even China.

Why would we want rail?


1) Speed. High speed trains go at 300 Km /hour (186miles/hour).
Cars/busses can never attain that speed


If we need speed, take an airplane.


2) Confort in long trips: Trains have restaurants/toilets and
MUCH more space than busses.


Take a plane. Then long trips are short.


3) Security; Train accidents here in Europe are very rare. Much
lower than cars or busses.


But when one happens it's a freaking disaster. Commercial bus travel
is safer than train travel in the United States. Airplanes are safer
than both.


4) Less pollution since trains use less energy per person
transported

Busses aren't used much here in Europe. Slow, inconfortable,
risky and very polluting.


If we want Europe, we know where to find it.


A network of high speed trains
goes through most of the continent, and many more are planned.


That's nice.


A mile of track or a mile of road takes you exactly one mile; a mile of
runway takes you to the rest of the world.
  #8  
Old July 22nd 13, 06:38 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Wayne Throop
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Default Elon Musk other ideas:)

[ trains, planes, and busses]

:: Busses aren't used much here in Europe. Slow, inconfortable, risky
:: and very polluting.

: Fred J. McCall
: If we want Europe, we know where to find it.

Yes. To some extent, there *is* a reason our mix of transportation
differs from Europe's. The anecdote has made its way around,
about Europeans visiting folks in New York, saying maybe they'd
take a day trip (via car) to see some spots in Texas.

Thing is, in Europe, there's not quite as much *there* there. And the
rail network grew up with the urbanization. And of course, there was
already a discussion somehere around here outlining why a train has
quite a few disadvantages over a plane in terms of necessary track
usage management vs air traffic control, and how plane routes can be
organized into star patterns and trains... not quite so much. Or at
least, not economically.

Yes, yes, all the wonderful things about trains are true. They are
far more luxurious, they are far more energy-efficient, yada yada yada.
However, commercial airliners are twice as fast as a bullet train, and
don't need tousands upon thousands upon thousands of kilometers of track
to be laid to cover the US.

So. There is a *potential* niche for a "bullet train" in the US.
But it is squeezed between planes for longer distances and vehicles
using the roads for shorter, and also squeezed by the economics of
laying new rail to get high enough speeds for intermediate or longer
distances.

I'm not saying a nice train-based passenger system wouldn't be nifty.
It's just that mandating it at this late date is almost certainly
counterproductive. We got the mix of transport methods we got because
of what was economical, and when it was economical. Same as Europe.
But then, if we want Europe (along with its infrastructure choices based
on its geography and historicay) we know where to find it.


My pappy said son, you're gonna drive me to drinkin'
If you don't stop drivin' that Hot. Rod. Lincoln.

  #9  
Old July 22nd 13, 12:19 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Bob Haller
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Posts: 3,197
Default Elon Musk other ideas:)

a 800 MPH tube transit system will take things to a whole new level

heck day trips to texas from NY will be possible
  #10  
Old July 22nd 13, 02:29 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Wayne Throop
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Posts: 1,062
Default Elon Musk other ideas:)

:: a 800 MPH tube transit system will take things to a whole new level
:: heck day trips to texas from NY will be possible

A whole new level of expense for the tubes, yes.

: Fred J. McCall
: Teleportation will take things to a whole new level
: heck day trips to Tokyo from NY will be possible

Suborbital passenger service suffices for that, I'd expect.

 




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