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Mars MOLA Sea Confirmed!



 
 
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  #11  
Old June 18th 10, 01:35 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.astro,sci.astro.amateur,alt.sci.planetary
tom Donnley
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Posts: 41
Default Mars MOLA Sea Confirmed!

On Jun 17, 6:30*pm, Pat Flannery wrote:
On 6/16/2010 3:40 PM, tom Donnley wrote:

I had a quick look around didnt find anything like that. I have no
idea what your talking about. I'm bailing.


Well, if you're bailing, there must be water there, right?
That's simple logic. :-)


Well, I hope its water, given my fear of heights, hmm, what is the
terminal velocity of urine

Actually, I think I'm missing messages from this thread. The OP sent a
link to a list of PDF's with a topic "Mars Mola Sea Confirmed". A
quick browse of the pdfs didnt identify anything to do with Mars, Seas
or Mola so I'm at a loss...
  #12  
Old June 18th 10, 01:43 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.astro,sci.astro.amateur,alt.sci.planetary
kT
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Posts: 5,032
Default Mars MOLA Sea Confirmed!

tom Donnley wrote:
On Jun 17, 6:30 pm, Pat Flannery wrote:
On 6/16/2010 3:40 PM, tom Donnley wrote:

I had a quick look around didnt find anything like that. I have no
idea what your talking about. I'm bailing.

Well, if you're bailing, there must be water there, right?
That's simple logic. :-)


Well, I hope its water, given my fear of heights, hmm, what is the
terminal velocity of urine

Actually, I think I'm missing messages from this thread. The OP sent a
link to a list of PDF's with a topic "Mars Mola Sea Confirmed". A
quick browse of the pdfs didnt identify anything to do with Mars, Seas
or Mola so I'm at a loss...


The OP sent confirmation message to the four top level newsgroups where
this subject was discussed for a number of years, close to a decade now.

Familiarity with the subject material was assumed. Your abilities to
peruse the news and literature and familiarize yourself with the various
evidences and arguments is generally a given. This topic was argued
extensively for years now, one would expect this to be Earth shattering.

It's not. Oh well. On to Ceres! May the bitter and cynical arguments
commence, until and well beyond the ground truth emerges in 2015.

It's been a great ride, no? Perhaps you weren't around in the 60's.
Venusian Amazonion Babes. Ancient Martian Civilizations. It's all good.

Try the BBC, they have first rate science and space reporting. Or any of
the English pulp newspapers, they cover it fairly well too, and funnier!
  #13  
Old June 18th 10, 11:17 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.astro,sci.astro.amateur,alt.sci.planetary
John M
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Posts: 24
Default Mars MOLA Sea Confirmed!


"Pat Flannery" wrote in message
dakotatelephone...
On 6/16/2010 3:40 PM, tom Donnley wrote:

I had a quick look around didnt find anything like that. I have no
idea what your talking about. I'm bailing.


Well, if you're bailing, there must be water there, right?
That's simple logic. :-)
Seriously, I'm a amateur fossil collector, and even I thought this
formation looked a lot like a fossil:
http://www.david-sadler.org/image/sc...noidFossil.jpg
The "blueberries" were found to be meteorite splash.



I think the conclusion was the blueberries are mineral concretions
which formed in a wet shallow subsurface environment. Forming
in a layer of mud, not within the cracks of rocks as on Earth, is
the only way to explain their high level of uniform size and
distribution.

If you look at Meridiani again, looking only at the horizon, only
an ocean can create a horizon that flat.

http://areo.info/mer/opportunity/405...5L5L6.jpg.html



Meteorite impacts occur at such high velocity due to the thin atmosphere
that the molten rock generated by the impact gets thrown far and wide in
the low gravity and thin air, with the small droplets solidifying into
spheres as they free-fall back to the surface. The same technique was used
in colonial times to make round lead shot by pouring molten lead onto a
perforated grate at the top of a "Shot Tower" and having it solidify as it
fell through the air into a pool of water at the bottom of the tower.
Once recovered from the water the cooled shot was run over grates with
various sized holes in them, and sorted into uniform sizes by which holes
it fell through.
In much the same way, if you could run the rover all over the place and
measure the average size of the "blueberries" you found, you might be able
to figure out which particular crater their formation was associated with,
as different sized and weighted ones would travel different distances from
the formative crater in a series of concentric rings.

Pat



  #14  
Old June 18th 10, 07:04 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.astro,sci.astro.amateur,alt.sci.planetary
Chris.B[_2_]
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Posts: 2,410
Default Mars MOLA Sea Confirmed!

On Jun 18, 12:17*pm, "John M" wrote:

If you look at Meridiani again, looking only at the horizon, only
an ocean can create a horizon that flat.

http://areo.info/mer/opportunity/405...000P2663L5M1_L...


Or ice.

  #15  
Old June 18th 10, 10:03 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.astro,sci.astro.amateur,alt.sci.planetary
Pat Flannery
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Posts: 18,465
Default Mars MOLA Sea Confirmed!

On 6/18/2010 2:17 AM, John M wrote:

I think the conclusion was the blueberries are mineral concretions
which formed in a wet shallow subsurface environment. Forming
in a layer of mud, not within the cracks of rocks as on Earth, is
the only way to explain their high level of uniform size and
distribution.


That was the original finding, but later it got back-tracked to the
meteor splash one. Anything that would slowly grow would show concentric
internal layers like a hailstone, and when they cut into the blueberries
they were uniform on the interior:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martian_spherules


If you look at Meridiani again, looking only at the horizon, only
an ocean can create a horizon that flat.

http://areo.info/mer/opportunity/405...5L5L6.jpg.html


There are horizons that flat on the Earth, and also up on the Moon due
to magma flooding of the lunar maria.

Pat
  #16  
Old June 21st 10, 04:03 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.astro,sci.astro.amateur,alt.sci.planetary
tom Donnley
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Posts: 41
Default Mars MOLA Sea Confirmed!

On Jun 18, 10:43*am, kT wrote:
tom Donnley wrote:

The OP sent confirmation message to the four top level newsgroups where
this subject was discussed for a number of years, close to a decade now.


You had years of discussion about a directory of PDF's. Wow, maybe you
could have discussed something interesting like "Mars Mola Sea" rather
than just a Directory of PDF's, afterall PDF directories are hardly
unique.

Familiarity with the subject material was assumed. Your abilities to
peruse the news and literature and familiarize yourself with the various
evidences and arguments is generally a given. This topic was argued
extensively for years now, one would expect this to be Earth shattering.


Nothing earth shattering about a directory of PDF's. Would you like me
to show you have to make a PDF, I can then show you the really tricky
part about putting them all in a directory. I assure you it wont take
years, maybe a couple of months given your comprehension skills but
not years.

Just as an FYI, a search through Google groups for Mars Mola Sea in
"sci.space.policy" showed no such conversations in the past. Perhaps,
you should get a life and get over this fixation of PDF directories. I
hear their are some new medication regimes that could help you alot.
  #17  
Old June 21st 10, 05:05 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.astro,sci.astro.amateur,alt.sci.planetary
kT
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Posts: 5,032
Default Mars MOLA Sea Confirmed!

tom Donnley wrote:

On Jun 18, 10:43 am, kT wrote:
tom Donnley wrote:

The OP sent confirmation message to the four top level newsgroups where
this subject was discussed for a number of years, close to a decade now.


You had years of discussion about a directory of PDF's. Wow, maybe you
could have discussed something interesting like "Mars Mola Sea" rather
than just a Directory of PDF's, afterall PDF directories are hardly
unique.


You're new around these parts, arntcha?

Welcome to alt.sci.planetary!

Hint : beware of the molten core and don't drill too deep.

And, in the words of Jack Horkheimer himself, keep looking up!
  #18  
Old June 21st 10, 03:44 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.astro.amateur,alt.sci.planetary
Quadibloc
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Posts: 7,018
Default Mars MOLA Sea Confirmed!

On Jun 20, 9:03*pm, tom Donnley wrote:

Just as an FYI, a search through Google groups for Mars Mola Sea in
"sci.space.policy" showed no such conversations in the past.


Somehow, the confirmation of a MOLA sea on Mars apparently refutes
anthropogenic global warming, according to the first post in this
thread. How _anything_ that happened on Mars could do this, Mars being
so much further from the Sun than Earth, and having such a thin
atmosphere due to its lower gravity... but then, it must be admitted
that Venus being _closer_ to the Sun than we are weakens its relevance
as evidence for global warming.

But then, AGW advocates were just saying the glaciers would melt, not
lead.

Now then: there were some recent news items about an ancient sea on
Mars being confirmed. I hadn't realized, or at least remembered, that
the Mars Orbiting Laser Altimeter on Mars Global Surveyor was
important in this.

The news item I recalled was:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0613181245.htm

Here, the extent of the ancient ocean was indicated by the locations
of apparent river deltas.

But even with more details, I am at a loss to guess which, if any, of
the .PDF files located on the URL in the original post relates to
ancient seas on Mars. The "Younger Dryas Impact" was an asteroidal or
cometary impact on the Earth that affected climate in North America -
and everything else looks even less likely.

John Savard
  #19  
Old June 22nd 10, 01:32 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.astro,sci.astro.amateur,alt.sci.planetary
tom Donnley
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Posts: 41
Default Mars MOLA Sea Confirmed!

On Jun 21, 2:05*pm, kT wrote:
You're new around these parts, arntcha?


Nope. Wrong again.

Welcome to alt.sci.planetary!


Nope dont read that group. I read "sci.space.policy". Keep trying
though you'll eventually get something right.

Hint : beware of the molten core and don't drill too deep.


Nope. No molten core in space, try again.

And, in the words of Jack Horkheimer himself, keep looking up!


Nope. You may want to pass on to whoever this Jack character is that
that's a good way to run into things and besides you would never know
where you are going. In space and on earth we like to avoid both
scenarios.
  #20  
Old June 24th 10, 05:03 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.astro,sci.astro.amateur,alt.sci.planetary,sci.bio.misc
Robert Clark
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Posts: 1,150
Default Mars MOLA Sea Confirmed!

On Jun 15, 11:05*pm, kT wrote:
tom Donnley wrote:
On Jun 15, 6:27 am, kT wrote:
Take that you carbon dioxide lovers!


http://webpages.charter.net/tsiolkovsky/


Huh..I dont get it. It's a list of what appear to be PDF's. Is their
something specific your refering to??


Nothing specific. Just the usual mars, water, life and fossil stuff.

Banded iron formations. Extremophile stromatolites, blobs, blobula,
bloblulons, the usual suspects. We were seeing a lot of it laying around
up on Husband Hill, and it appears there was quite a bit of it laying
around the Sojourner site as well :

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...n_segment1.gif


Actually a recent paper does provide further support that Mars did
have a global ocean early in its geological history:

New CU-Boulder Study Indicates an Ancient Ocean May Have Covered One-
Third of Mars.
June 13, 2010
"A vast ocean likely covered one-third of the surface of Mars some 3.5
billion years ago, according to a new study conducted by University of
Colorado at Boulder scientists."
....
"A second study headed by Hynek and involving CU-Boulder researcher
Michael Beach of LASP and CU-Boulder doctoral student Monica Hoke
being published in the Journal of Geophysical Research–Planets --
which is a publication of the American Geophysical Union -- detected
roughly 40,000 river valleys on Mars. That is about four times the
number of river valleys that have previously been identified by
scientists, said Hynek.
The river valleys were the source of the sediment that was carried
downstream and dumped into the deltas adjacent to the proposed ocean,
said Hynek. "The abundance of these river valleys required a
significant amount of precipitation," he said. "This effectively puts
a nail in the coffin regarding the presence of past rainfall on Mars."
Hynek said an ocean was likely required for the sustained
precipitation.
"Collectively, these results support the existing theories regarding
the extent and formation time of an ancient ocean on Mars and imply
the surface conditions during the time probably allowed the occurrence
of a global and active hydrosphere integrating valley networks, deltas
and a vast ocean as major components of an Earth-like hydrologic
cycle," Di Achille and Hynek wrote in Nature Geoscience."
http://www.colorado.edu/news/r/f9b2e...0735f7098.html


Bob Clark
 




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