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Shuttle pad damaged



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 2nd 08, 08:28 AM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy
Pat Flannery
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Default Shuttle pad damaged

....during the latest launch; inside of the flame trench got torn up by
the exhaust blast:
http://spaceflightnow.com/shuttle/sts124/080601pad/
Looking a lot like the eruption of Mount St. Helens, here's debris from
the flame trench hitting the water during launch:
http://spaceflightnow.com/shuttle/st...plash_full.jpg

Pat
  #2  
Old June 2nd 08, 09:22 AM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy
Alan Erskine[_2_]
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Default Shuttle pad damaged

"Pat Flannery" wrote in message
dakotatelephone...
...during the latest launch; inside of the flame trench got torn up by the
exhaust blast:
http://spaceflightnow.com/shuttle/sts124/080601pad/
Looking a lot like the eruption of Mount St. Helens, here's debris from
the flame trench hitting the water during launch:
http://spaceflightnow.com/shuttle/st...plash_full.jpg

Pat


They are 40 years old; can't expect them to keep up the pace forever. Just
the same, that's a hell of a lot of damage - I don't recall seeing anything
like that before.


  #3  
Old June 2nd 08, 09:40 AM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy
Alan Erskine[_2_]
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Default Shuttle pad damaged

"Pat Flannery" wrote in message
dakotatelephone...
...during the latest launch; inside of the flame trench got torn up by the
exhaust blast:
http://spaceflightnow.com/shuttle/sts124/080601pad/
Looking a lot like the eruption of Mount St. Helens, here's debris from
the flame trench hitting the water during launch:
http://spaceflightnow.com/shuttle/st...plash_full.jpg

Pat


Maybe they got a REALLY rough ride on this trip! Are there any vibration
sensors on the shuttle to determine just how rough the ride was?


  #4  
Old June 2nd 08, 05:07 PM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy
Pat Flannery
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Default Shuttle pad damaged



Alan Erskine wrote:
They are 40 years old; can't expect them to keep up the pace forever. Just
the same, that's a hell of a lot of damage - I don't recall seeing anything
like that before.


I imagine you get something like the "zipper effect" on the Shuttle's
TPS tiles - as soon as one block of concrete breaks free it creates a
hole that causes aerodynamic and acoustic effects from the SRB and SSME
exhaust to cause more blocks in its vicinity to break free.
I found it interesting that the damage wasn't limited to the interior of
the flame trench, but caused buckling on its exterior also:
http://spaceflightnow.com/shuttle/st.../paddamage.jpg
If the basic structure of the concrete that makes up the pad base was
seriously damaged, this could be a pretty major repair to accomplish in
a timely manner. The last thing you want is to have the whole structure
destabilize under the vibration of launch like loose soil in a
earthquake and have the pad fall apart during launch.
Here's a photo of the interior of the flame trench, showing the damage
to its walls:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/ind...=7206 5;image

Pat
  #5  
Old June 2nd 08, 05:27 PM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy
Pat Flannery
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Default Shuttle pad damaged



Alan Erskine wrote:

Maybe they got a REALLY rough ride on this trip! Are there any vibration
sensors on the shuttle to determine just how rough the ride was?


I assume there would be, as part of the new systems to detect debris
impacts post-Columbia, if they didn't have them installed all
along...and I think they did have that data right from the beginning of
the program.
I want to know if something happened before this flight that affected
the pad... say, heavier rain than usual that saturated the soil under
the concrete and caused it to shift under the vibrations of launch.
This report mentions a "bulged blowout":
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5438
I looked that up, and it sounds fairly serious from a structural point
of view:
http://www.masonryconstruction.com/i...79&sectionID=0

Pat

  #6  
Old June 2nd 08, 10:50 PM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy
Alan Erskine[_2_]
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Default Shuttle pad damaged

"Pat Flannery" wrote in message
news:5OednaKjB687gtnVnZ2dnUVZ_vSdnZ2d@northdakotat elephone...
I want to know if something happened before this flight that affected the
pad... say, heavier rain than usual that saturated the soil under the
concrete and caused it to shift under the vibrations of launch.
This report mentions a "bulged blowout":
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5438
I looked that up, and it sounds fairly serious from a structural point of
view:
http://www.masonryconstruction.com/i...79&sectionID=0


Sounds like what would happen if you grab a balloon and squeeze it around
the middle - the air has to go somewhere, so it bulges at the ends.


  #7  
Old June 3rd 08, 12:26 AM posted to sci.space.history
OM[_6_]
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Default Shuttle pad damaged

On Mon, 02 Jun 2008 11:27:50 -0500, Pat Flannery
wrote:

I want to know if something happened before this flight that affected
the pad... say, heavier rain than usual that saturated the soil under
the concrete and caused it to shift under the vibrations of launch.
This report mentions a "bulged blowout":


....If not rain, then perhaps some sort of pipe leak or other
groundwater surging? Or perhaps a crack in the masonry allowed the
sound suppression flood to seep in and become superheated to the point
necessary to cause that much damage? Either way, it sure as hell
wasn't foam that caused that :-P

OM
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] Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* [
] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [
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  #8  
Old June 3rd 08, 06:42 AM posted to sci.space.history
Pat Flannery
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Posts: 18,465
Default Shuttle pad damaged



OM wrote:
On Mon, 02 Jun 2008 11:27:50 -0500, Pat Flannery
wrote:


I want to know if something happened before this flight that affected
the pad... say, heavier rain than usual that saturated the soil under
the concrete and caused it to shift under the vibrations of launch.
This report mentions a "bulged blowout":


...If not rain, then perhaps some sort of pipe leak or other
groundwater surging?


AH-HA! The plot thickens! And what has very high quantities of water
being shot into it for the reduction of acoustic effects on launch?
The flame trench!
And its plumbing would be underground to prevent damage to it during
launch, and subject to high frequency vibrations conducted to it during
each launch by the pad structure surrounding it.
And after twenty year or so of launches...
Yeah, that makes perfect sense.
Top notch hypothesis, OM!

Pat
  #9  
Old June 5th 08, 12:29 PM posted to sci.space.history
Neil Gerace[_2_]
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Default Shuttle pad damaged

Would the amount of superheated water vapour represented by the SSMEs'
exhaust be significant?
  #10  
Old June 6th 08, 03:40 AM posted to sci.space.history
Jorge R. Frank
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Default Shuttle pad damaged

Neil Gerace wrote:
Would the amount of superheated water vapour represented by the SSMEs'
exhaust be significant?


If that were the case, don't you think there'd be more damage in the
*south* flame trench (where the SSME exhaust goes) rather than the north
(where the SRB exhaust goes, and where the damage occurred)?
 




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