Online tutor?

Hi everyone,

I'm new to this forum and want to learn more about our solar system and beyond. I'm eight years old and feel too advanced for what my school are teaching me (poems about the order of the planets in our solar system!) I want to learn more.

I know the basics but I'm struggling to understand the more advanced books and documentaries. Is there anyone who can help me understand beyond the basics?

On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 11:48:19 +0000, Lunar
wrote:


Hi everyone,

I'm new to this forum and want to learn more about our solar system and
beyond. I'm eight years old and feel too advanced for what my school are
teaching me (poems about the order of the planets in our solar system!)
I want to learn more.

I know the basics but I'm struggling to understand the more advanced
books and documentaries. Is there anyone who can help me understand
beyond the basics?

Pick a topic and ask a specific question. See if anyone here can
help.

--
Remove del for email

On 23/10/2012 12:48, Lunar wrote:
Hi everyone,

I'm new to this forum and want to learn more about our solar system and
beyond. I'm eight years old and feel too advanced for what my school are
teaching me (poems about the order of the planets in our solar system!)
I want to learn more.

Ask away and we will try to answer at the right level. There is also

http://starchild.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/...StarChild.html

And probably more. ISTR there are some space fact trivia trading cards.

The childrens books on science and astronomy review with wildly
different 5* and 1* ratings for the same book so I'd try and borrow them
from a public or school library until you find one you like!

I know the basics but I'm struggling to understand the more advanced
books and documentaries. Is there anyone who can help me understand
beyond the basics?

Decide which areas interest you and we can try and point you towards a
book or online resource at about the right level.

Worth a look in your local library to see if they have anything.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Oct 23, 8:42*am, Martin Brown
wrote:
On 23/10/2012 12:48, Lunar wrote:

Hi everyone,

I'm new to this forum and want to learn more about our solar system and
beyond. I'm eight years old and feel too advanced for what my school are
teaching me (poems about the order of the planets in our solar system!)
I want to learn more.

Ask away and we will try to answer at the right level. There is also

http://starchild.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/...StarChild.html

And probably more. ISTR there are some space fact trivia trading cards.

The childrens books on science and astronomy review with wildly
different 5* and 1* ratings for the same book so I'd try and borrow them
from a public or school library until you find one you like!



I know the basics but I'm struggling to understand the more advanced
books and documentaries. Is there anyone who can help me understand
beyond the basics?

Decide which areas interest you and we can try and point you towards a
book or online resource at about the right level.

Worth a look in your local library to see if they have anything.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

You lot crack me up,the child asks for basic planetary facts and NASA
can't give it to them -

http://starchild.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/...rth_facts.html

Is there an intelligent adult who can work out that the fundamental
unit of timekeeping is the number of rotations,to the nearest
rotation,corresponding to 4 orbital circuits of the Earth.The
Egyptians worked out it takes an extra day after 4 year for the star
Sirius to reappear from behind the glare of the Sun due specifically
to the orbital motion of the Earth -

" on account of the precession of the rising of Sirius by one day in
the course of 4 years.. therefore it shall be, that the year of 360
days and the 5 days added to their end, so one day shall be from this
day after every 4 years added to the 5 epagomenae before the New Year,
whereby all men shall learn, that what was a little defective in the
order as regards the seasons and the year, as also the opinions which
are contained in the rules of the learned on the heavenly orbits, are
now corrected and improved.." Canopus Decree

There are 1461 AM/PM cycles inclusive of 4 orbital circuits and the
averaging process which creates the 24 hour day also asserts that
rotation is constant without any external reference save the number of
times it occurs in 4 years.The whole process which uses the calendar
format of 365/366 days to create the 24 hour AM/PM cycle in tandem
with the Lat/Long system and maintains a correspondence of 15 degrees/
1037.5 miles per hour at the equator prohibits the Ra/Dec extensions
which NASA tries to present as planetary facts.

An 8 year old may not be able to process the necessary geometric
judgments needed to make sense of the transfer of days/years into
rotations/orbital circuits but teenagers should with the aid of
graphics and modern imaging,of course,this supposes that adults can
get their act together with time,space and motion as it actually exist
rather than following the poor conclusion created by John Flamsteed.

The error should be treated with the utmost urgency and transparency
and especially as the key to the resolution partly resides with John
Harrison who defies the silly fact sheet of NASA -

"The application of a Timekeeper to this discovery is founded upon the
following principles: the earth's surface is divided into 360 equal
parts (by imaginary lines drawn from North to South) which are called
Degrees of Longitude; and its daily revolution Eastward round its own
axis is performed in 24 hours; consequently in that period, each of
those imaginary lines or degrees, becomes successively opposite to the
Sun (which makes the noon or precise middle of the day at each of
those degrees and it must follow, that from the time any one of
those lines passes the Sun, till the next passes, must be just four
minutes, for 24 hours being divided by 360 will give that quantity; so
that for every degree of Longitude we sail Westward, it will be noon
with us four minutes the later, and for every degree Eastward four
minutes the sooner, and so on in proportion for any greater or less
quantity. Now, the exact time of the day at the place where we are,
can be ascertained by well known and easy observations of the Sun if
visible for a few minutes at any time from his being ten degrees high
until within an hour of noon, or from an hour after noon until he is
only 10 degrees high in the afternoon; if therefore, at any time when
such observation is made, a Timekeeper tells us at the same moment
what o'clock it is at the place we sailed from, our Longitude is
clearly discovered." John Harrison

The English get to decide,albeit the window of opportunity is
closing,whether they wish to continue on with the worst possible
conclusion ever drawn or have an external source fix it for them,after
all,NASA itself is veering rapidly away from the error and adopting
the correct planetary facts -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDWHM00sZJc

On 23/10/2012 19:50, oriel36 wrote:
On Oct 23, 8:42 am, Martin Brown
wrote:
On 23/10/2012 12:48, Lunar wrote:

Hi everyone,

I'm new to this forum and want to learn more about our solar system and
beyond. I'm eight years old and feel too advanced for what my school are
teaching me (poems about the order of the planets in our solar system!)
I want to learn more.

Ask away and we will try to answer at the right level. There is also

http://starchild.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/...StarChild.html

And probably more. ISTR there are some space fact trivia trading cards.

The childrens books on science and astronomy review with wildly
different 5* and 1* ratings for the same book so I'd try and borrow them
from a public or school library until you find one you like!



I know the basics but I'm struggling to understand the more advanced
books and documentaries. Is there anyone who can help me understand
beyond the basics?

Decide which areas interest you and we can try and point you towards a
book or online resource at about the right level.

Worth a look in your local library to see if they have anything.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

You lot crack me up,the child asks for basic planetary facts and NASA
can't give it to them -

http://starchild.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/...rth_facts.html

Is there an intelligent adult who can work out that the fundamental
unit of timekeeping is the number of rotations,to the nearest
rotation,corresponding to 4 orbital circuits of the Earth.The
Egyptians worked out it takes an extra day after 4 year for the star
Sirius to reappear from behind the glare of the Sun due specifically
to the orbital motion of the Earth -

" on account of the precession of the rising of Sirius by one day in
the course of 4 years.. therefore it shall be, that the year of 360
days and the 5 days added to their end, so one day shall be from this
day after every 4 years added to the 5 epagomenae before the New Year,
whereby all men shall learn, that what was a little defective in the
order as regards the seasons and the year, as also the opinions which
are contained in the rules of the learned on the heavenly orbits, are
now corrected and improved.." Canopus Decree

There are 1461 AM/PM cycles inclusive of 4 orbital circuits and the
averaging process which creates the 24 hour day also asserts that
rotation is constant without any external reference save the number of
times it occurs in 4 years.The whole process which uses the calendar
format of 365/366 days to create the 24 hour AM/PM cycle in tandem
with the Lat/Long system and maintains a correspondence of 15 degrees/
1037.5 miles per hour at the equator prohibits the Ra/Dec extensions
which NASA tries to present as planetary facts.

An 8 year old may not be able to process the necessary geometric
judgments needed to make sense of the transfer of days/years into
rotations/orbital circuits but teenagers should with the aid of
graphics and modern imaging,of course,this supposes that adults can
get their act together with time,space and motion as it actually exist
rather than following the poor conclusion created by John Flamsteed.

The error should be treated with the utmost urgency and transparency
and especially as the key to the resolution partly resides with John
Harrison who defies the silly fact sheet of NASA -

"The application of a Timekeeper to this discovery is founded upon the
following principles: the earth's surface is divided into 360 equal
parts (by imaginary lines drawn from North to South) which are called
Degrees of Longitude; and its daily revolution Eastward round its own
axis is performed in 24 hours; consequently in that period, each of
those imaginary lines or degrees, becomes successively opposite to the
Sun (which makes the noon or precise middle of the day at each of
those degrees and it must follow, that from the time any one of
those lines passes the Sun, till the next passes, must be just four
minutes, for 24 hours being divided by 360 will give that quantity; so
that for every degree of Longitude we sail Westward, it will be noon
with us four minutes the later, and for every degree Eastward four
minutes the sooner, and so on in proportion for any greater or less
quantity. Now, the exact time of the day at the place where we are,
can be ascertained by well known and easy observations of the Sun if
visible for a few minutes at any time from his being ten degrees high
until within an hour of noon, or from an hour after noon until he is
only 10 degrees high in the afternoon; if therefore, at any time when
such observation is made, a Timekeeper tells us at the same moment
what o'clock it is at the place we sailed from, our Longitude is
clearly discovered." John Harrison

The English get to decide,albeit the window of opportunity is
closing,whether they wish to continue on with the worst possible
conclusion ever drawn or have an external source fix it for them,after
all,NASA itself is veering rapidly away from the error and adopting
the correct planetary facts -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDWHM00sZJc

The OP would do well to note that there are some right nutters and kooks
on the internet who post meaningless word salad text - a sample of which
is now conveniently between my original reply and this post.

If you can't make sense of Oriel36 ramblings then don't worry - nobody
else can either. You are not alone. You as an eight year old probably
already have a better understanding of modern physics than he does.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Oct 23, 12:26*pm, Martin Brown
wrote:
On 23/10/2012 19:50, oriel36 wrote:









On Oct 23, 8:42 am, Martin Brown
wrote:
On 23/10/2012 12:48, Lunar wrote:

Hi everyone,

I'm new to this forum and want to learn more about our solar system and
beyond. I'm eight years old and feel too advanced for what my school are
teaching me (poems about the order of the planets in our solar system!)
I want to learn more.

Ask away and we will try to answer at the right level. There is also

http://starchild.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/...StarChild.html

And probably more. ISTR there are some space fact trivia trading cards..

The childrens books on science and astronomy review with wildly
different 5* and 1* ratings for the same book so I'd try and borrow them
from a public or school library until you find one you like!

I know the basics but I'm struggling to understand the more advanced
books and documentaries. Is there anyone who can help me understand
beyond the basics?

Decide which areas interest you and we can try and point you towards a
book or online resource at about the right level.

Worth a look in your local library to see if they have anything.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

You lot crack me up,the child asks for basic planetary facts and NASA
can't give it to them -

http://starchild.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/...tem_level1/ear...

Is there an intelligent adult who can work out that the fundamental
unit of timekeeping is the number of rotations,to the nearest
rotation,corresponding to 4 orbital circuits of the Earth.The
Egyptians worked out it takes an extra day after 4 year for the star
Sirius to reappear from behind the glare of the Sun due specifically
to the orbital motion of the Earth -

" on account of the precession of the rising of Sirius by one day in
the course of 4 years.. therefore it shall be, that the year of 360
days and the 5 days added to their end, so one day shall be from this
day after every 4 years added to the 5 epagomenae before the New Year,
whereby all men shall learn, that what was a little defective in the
order as regards the seasons and the year, as also the opinions which
are contained in the rules of the learned on the heavenly orbits, are
now corrected and improved.." Canopus Decree

There are 1461 AM/PM cycles inclusive of 4 orbital circuits and the
averaging process which creates the 24 hour day also asserts that
rotation is constant without any external reference save the number of
times it occurs in 4 years.The whole process which uses the calendar
format of 365/366 days to create the 24 hour AM/PM cycle in tandem
with the Lat/Long system and maintains a correspondence of 15 degrees/
1037.5 miles per hour at the equator prohibits the Ra/Dec extensions
which NASA tries to present as planetary facts.

An 8 year old may not *be able to process the necessary geometric
judgments needed to make sense of the transfer of days/years into
rotations/orbital circuits but teenagers should with the aid of
graphics and modern imaging,of course,this supposes that adults can
get their act together with time,space and motion as it actually exist
rather than following the poor conclusion created by John Flamsteed.

The error should be treated with the utmost urgency and transparency
and especially as the key to the resolution partly resides with John
Harrison who defies the silly fact sheet of NASA -

"The application of a Timekeeper to this discovery is founded upon the
following principles: the earth's surface is divided into 360 equal
parts (by imaginary lines drawn from North to South) which are called
Degrees of Longitude; and its daily revolution Eastward round its own
axis is performed in 24 hours; consequently in that period, each of
those imaginary lines or degrees, becomes successively opposite to the
Sun (which makes the noon or precise middle of the day at each of
those degrees and it must follow, that from the time any one of
those lines passes the Sun, till the next passes, must be just four
minutes, for 24 hours being divided by 360 will give that quantity; so
that for every degree of Longitude we sail Westward, it will be noon
with us four minutes the later, and for every degree Eastward four
minutes the sooner, and so on in proportion for any greater or less
quantity. Now, the exact time of the day at the place where we are,
can be ascertained by well known and easy observations of the Sun if
visible for a few minutes at any time from his being ten degrees high
until within an hour of noon, or from an hour after noon until he is
only 10 degrees high in the afternoon; if therefore, at any time when
such observation is made, a Timekeeper tells us at the same moment
what o'clock it is at the place we sailed from, our Longitude is
clearly discovered." John Harrison

The English get to decide,albeit the window of opportunity is
closing,whether they wish to continue on with the worst possible
conclusion ever drawn or have an external source fix it for them,after
all,NASA itself is veering rapidly away from the error and adopting
the correct planetary facts -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDWHM00sZJc

The OP would do well to note that there are some right nutters and kooks
on the internet who post meaningless word salad text - a sample of which
is now conveniently between my original reply and this post.


Why would you send an 8 year old to a website which does not give the
accurate basic facts for the Earth ?.Even I allow that NASA has
changed it position and is now moving towards a stable astronomical
narrative but has not handled the error in a transparent way however
the English response to an English problem is quite different in a
dismaying sort of way. Even when principles and insights expounded by
the great John Harrison are ignored and that takes some doing as it is
the equivalent of the Americans ignoring the achievement of Armstrong
and the moon landing

If the English are presently occupied by a scandal centering on the
misuse of trust of children by a celebrity then they have no idea what
is looming in the background when empiricists/physicists are brought
to task in simple astronomical matters.There are no hastily assembled
committees asking how in God's name did an entire community lose basic
planetary facts and lose them they did.


If you can't make sense of Oriel36 ramblings then don't worry - nobody
else can either. You are not alone. You as an eight year old probably
already have a better understanding of modern physics than he does.


Leave him alone,he is a child.

I hold nobody accountable over the last 3 centuries for making a
mistake and taking a step too far with the Ra/Dec system,after all,it
is a great calendar based convenience for predicting eclipses and the
relationship of celestial bodies to each other but it cannot supplant
the 24 hour AM/PM system in tandem with the Lat/Long system as a
means to extract the daily and annual motions of the Earth.

On the other hand,I do hold people here accountable for the mistake
and whether the English choose to fix this mistake or not,it is
already being dealt with,even in a poor sort of way.Bluster all you
will Brown,I still hold people like John Harrison and William Blake
as true Englishmen who display the individuality, the creative/
productive nature and the sense of fair play rather than the empirical
thugs who now occupy English science.










--
Regards,
Martin Brown

In uk.sci.astronomy message , Tue, 23 Oct
2012 16:42:09, Martin Brown posted:

On 23/10/2012 12:48, Lunar wrote:
Hi everyone,

I'm new to this forum and want to learn more about our solar system and
beyond. I'm eight years old and feel too advanced for what my school are
teaching me (poems about the order of the planets in our solar system!)
I want to learn more.

Ask away and we will try to answer at the right level. There is also

http://starchild.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/...StarChild.html

H'mmm - all it has relevant to the Lagrange Points (popular nowadays) is
a GIF of Lagrange. The deficiency has been pointed out.

Contrary to common opinion, Lagrange did not discover the Lagrange
Points - although the final step to the Points from what he did is
trivial, he did not take it in the /Essai/, and, AFAICS, nowhere else
either. Euler discovered L1 & L2, quietly. Details on my site.

--
(c) John Stockton, nr London, UK. Mail via homepage. Turnpike v6.05 MIME.
Web http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/ - FAQqish topics, acronyms and links;
Astro stuff via astron-1.htm, gravity0.htm ; quotings.htm, pascal.htm, etc.
No Encoding. Quotes before replies. Snip well. Write clearly. Don't Mail News.

On 24/10/2012 21:14, Dr J R Stockton wrote:
In uk.sci.astronomy message , Tue, 23 Oct
2012 16:42:09, Martin Brown posted:

On 23/10/2012 12:48, Lunar wrote:
Hi everyone,

I'm new to this forum and want to learn more about our solar system and
beyond. I'm eight years old and feel too advanced for what my school are
teaching me (poems about the order of the planets in our solar system!)
I want to learn more.

Ask away and we will try to answer at the right level. There is also

http://starchild.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/...StarChild.html

H'mmm - all it has relevant to the Lagrange Points (popular nowadays) is
a GIF of Lagrange. The deficiency has been pointed out.

Contrary to common opinion, Lagrange did not discover the Lagrange
Points - although the final step to the Points from what he did is
trivial, he did not take it in the /Essai/, and, AFAICS, nowhere else
either. Euler discovered L1 & L2, quietly. Details on my site.

Be fair John!

The intricacies of the Lagrange points are not within easy grasp of an
average eight year old. A picture of the guy is more than enough - he
was a great mathematician. Most physics undergraduates today would
struggle to derive the orbital Lagrangian points from first principles.

Another interesting site for the OP is Stellarium which provides a
realtime simulated view of the sky on a PC which shows where to look for
planets and comets. Jupiter is easy in the evening sky now.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/stellarium/

Or simpler and online by month/Zodiac sign

http://www.skyguide.org.uk/months/skywheel.htm

Or by constellation

http://www.skyguide.org.uk/constella...cassiopeia.htm

I remember being interested in astronomy too at about that age and the
main thing that frustrated me was that the star maps in books did not
include the planets! Obvious why when you know that they move about!
"Planet" literally means "wandering star".

BTW It would be nice to know if these replies are reaching
spacebanter.com and if the OP is still there.

I hope he hasn't been frightened off by Oriel36 blather.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Oct 25, 12:44*am, Martin Brown
wrote:

I remember being interested in astronomy too at about that age and the
main thing that frustrated me was that the star maps in books did not
include the planets! Obvious why when you know that they move about!
"Planet" literally means "wandering star".


And then came along an English clown called Newton who couldn't
comprehend that the 'wandering' nature of planets refers to
retrogrades and retrogrades are an illusion caused by the Earth's own
orbital motion between Venus and Mars and around the central Sun.A
teenager with the benefit of contemporary imaging and time lapse
footage can figure out what Isaac and his followers couldn't -

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap011220.html

There's your wandering motion for you Brown and the same teenager
could probably tell you that Isaac's idiosyncratic view of retrogrades
is a technical non sequitur as it doesn't involve a hypothetical
observer on the Sun - only an intelligent observer who realizes he is
standing on a moving Earth ! -

"For to the earth planetary motions appear sometimes direct, sometimes
stationary, nay, and sometimes retrograde. But from the sun they are
always seen direct,..." Newton

As a genuine astronomer,I can see what Isaac was trying to do with his
absolute/relative time,space and motion using that worthless idea of
retrogrades but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for somebody else to
ask what exactly he was up to and why it is catastrophically
disruptive for 21st century purposes.Apparently the English like their
iconic figures and certain sections of your nation seem terrified of
certain individuals then as now judging from the recent celebrity
exposure and Newton has such a grip on science that demonstrating what
he was actually doing looks like an assault on the English nation.

Wlliam Blake got it right even though he didn't know the technical ins
and outs of Newton's clockwork solar system approach which borrows
from Flamsteed's muddleheaded conclusion which takes a step too far
with a rotating celestial sphere of Ra/Dec.

"I turn my eyes to the Schools & Universities of Europe And there
behold the Loom of Locke whose Woof rages dire Washd by the Water-
wheels of Newton. black the cloth In heavy wreathes folds over every
Nation; cruel Works Of many Wheels I view, wheel without wheel, with
cogs tyrannic Moving by compulsion each other: not as those in Eden:
which Wheel within Wheel in freedom revolve in harmony & peace."
William Blake,Jerusalem

Cruel works indeed !,the cruelty will be returned if the English do
not deal with the mess which occurred within their borders and
specifically the train wreck involving astronomy and human
timekeeping.The Americans have already begun the recovery process-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDWHM00sZJc












BTW It would be nice to know if these replies are reaching
spacebanter.com and if the OP is still there.

I hope he hasn't been frightened off by Oriel36 blather.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 25/10/12 08:44, Martin Brown wrote:
On 24/10/2012 21:14, Dr J R Stockton wrote:
Contrary to common opinion, Lagrange did not discover the Lagrange
Points - although the final step to the Points from what he did is
trivial, he did not take it in the /Essai/, and, AFAICS, nowhere else
either.

Interesting. It's not just "common" opinion; eg, Kopal's
"Close Binary Systems" says explicitly [p546] "The five point-
solutions were discovered by J. L. Lagrange in his 'Essai [...]
(cf his /Collected Works/, *6*, p.229)," Kopal was a meticulous
researcher with access to a huge library and would certainly have
read the /Essai/, so I'm surprised he got it wrong.

[...] Most physics undergraduates today would
struggle to derive the orbital Lagrangian points from first
principles.

This may well be true, esp if they are simply given the
problem with no hints or "signposts". However, the derivation
is not particularly difficult, either for the Lagrange problem
of finding persistent configurations or for the usual restricted
three-body problem, as long as vector algebra is used to keep
the equations simple. I see no reason why a student shouldn't
be able to follow such a derivation, or to construct it given
reasonable pointers as to how to proceed.

The Lagrange points are also very easy to derive from
the Jacobi integral, by either vectorial or algebraic methods.
As this is essentially the potential energy of the system, this
derivation is also accessible to anyone who has done Hamiltonian
or Lagrangian mechanics -- surely still in the physics syllabus
at decent universities, even if not common knowledge among 8yos!
-- and gives scope then for discussion of stability.

--
Andy Walker,
Nottingham.