Bush boldly going...

If you go to http://www.angryflower.com/ and scroll down to the head-
line "Bush on Mars" you get a rather skeptical view on the recent
space initiative--by someone who isn't indifferent to the matter and
who would love Moonbases to happen, if only because they'd be cool...!

Unlike myself, however, he says, "not if Bush is proposing them."


The problem is, if all of what he writes were true it would be *so*
depressing. Can only a world in turmoil lead to advances in rocket
science and space travel? Jules Verne made the journey to the Moon
a consequence of the American Civil War. The Germans built the V-2.
The Russians sent people into space and the Americans reacted to that,
all the while knowing that those rockets are important because they
can carry bombs as well.

And then, while the world is at peace, we get nothing! Clinton may
have ensured a stable economy but he scratched lots of science pro-
grams, such as the giant supercollider thingy...

So is that it? Can we only go into the right direction outward if we
do everything wrong at home? If there really *were* a collapse of the
present economy and a change of power, could we forget about any Moon
plans happening in our lifetime?


It's really depressing thinking about it that way, of bold visions be-
ing fueled by paranoia only...

I just want to see us on the Moon and beyond. I don't care much, how!
Because, peaceful or no, a mankind who can't achieve that is *so* pa-
thetic and small, and unaware of their smallness!


--
__ “A good leader knows when it’s best to ignore the __
('__` screams for help and focus on the bigger picture.� '__`)
//6(6; ©OOL mmiv :^)^\\
`\_-/ http://home.t-online.de/home/ulrich....lmann/redbaron \-_/'

Let's see. The 'angryflower' site claims we have no conventional muscle
left to throw around, we want NMD simply to allow ourselves to nuke someone
in the absence of conventional muscle to throw around, repeatedly refers to
America as 'The Beast', and claims that in a few short years America has
gone from having its affairs in order and being forward-looking to "a
nervous, imploding, looking-over-its-shoulder train wreck of historical
proportions" ... sounds like a fairly typical, and typically ignorant,
Canadian rant about America, to be honest. I don't see anything of
particular value there. Oh, and of course, America is heading for economic
ruin, and it's being driven that way intentionally. Of course. The
American economy is no longer "solvent", or on the verge of being insolvent,
and of course that's why everyone is "backing away from the dollar" (because
of course America must want a strong dollar, right?).

I swear, some of the craziest stuff comes from Canadians these days.

Here's a tip: don't get your political commentary from entertainment
sources (that would include 'web comics', movie reviewers, etc.), and most
especially don't get your economic analysis from them.

"t_mark" wrote in message newsNySb.11135$L_4.5668@okepread01...

Let's see. The 'angryflower' site claims we have no conventional muscle
left to throw around, we want NMD simply to allow ourselves to nuke someone
in the absence of conventional muscle to throw around, repeatedly refers to
America as 'The Beast', and claims that in a few short years America has
gone from having its affairs in order and being forward-looking to "a
nervous, imploding, looking-over-its-shoulder train wreck of historical
proportions" ... sounds like a fairly typical, and typically ignorant,
Canadian rant about America, to be honest. I don't see anything of
particular value there. Oh, and of course, America is heading for economic
ruin, and it's being driven that way intentionally. Of course. The
American economy is no longer "solvent", or on the verge of being insolvent,
and of course that's why everyone is "backing away from the dollar" (because
of course America must want a strong dollar, right?).

I swear, some of the craziest stuff comes from Canadians these days.

Here's a tip: don't get your political commentary from entertainment
sources (that would include 'web comics', movie reviewers, etc.), and most
especially don't get your economic analysis from them.

I DON'T CARE ABOUT ECONOMICS! I DON'T CARE ABOUT WHETHER AMERICA GOES
BUST OR NOT, AS LONG AS WE BUILD A BASE ON THE MOON! IS THAT GOING TO
HAPPEN IF I VOTE FOR BUSH'S OPPONENT? IS IT EVEN GOING TO HAPPEN IF I
VOTE FOR BUSH OR DID HE JUST SAY IT TO GET VOTES FROM PEOPLE LIKE ME,
AND WOULD HE DROP IT LIKE A HOT POTATO ON THE FIRST DAY OF HIS SECOND
TERM?

WHAT SHALL I DO?? WHAT SHALL I DOOOO?!!!??

....

Hey, wait a moment... I can't vote for Bush or against him anyway!
I'm German.


But will we still be going to the Moon five years from now, no matter
who's in charge by then?!? Or until then?

When I say "we" I mean mankind, considering that before God we are all
Americans anyway. The Europeans sure ain't goin' nowhe

http://www.lunarsat.de/



--
__ “A good leader knows when it’s best to ignore the __
('__` screams for help and focus on the bigger picture.� '__`)
//6(6; ©OOL mmiv :^)^\\
`\_-/ http://home.t-online.de/home/ulrich....lmann/redbaron \-_/'

"Ool" wrote in message
...
"t_mark" wrote in message
newsNySb.11135$L_4.5668@okepread01...

I DON'T CARE ABOUT ECONOMICS!

Eventually you will.

I DON'T CARE ABOUT WHETHER AMERICA GOES
BUST OR NOT, AS LONG AS WE BUILD A BASE ON THE MOON! IS THAT GOING TO
HAPPEN IF I VOTE FOR BUSH'S OPPONENT?

Opponents. Plural.
Too soon to tell.

IS IT EVEN GOING TO HAPPEN IF I
VOTE FOR BUSH

Not likely at all.

OR DID HE JUST SAY IT TO GET VOTES FROM PEOPLE LIKE ME,

Precisely.

AND WOULD HE DROP IT LIKE A HOT POTATO ON THE FIRST DAY OF HIS SECOND
TERM?

If it even lasts that long.

"Chosp" wrote in message news:Z_GSb.33417$F15.31456@fed1read06...
"Ool" wrote in message
...
"t_mark" wrote in message
newsNySb.11135$L_4.5668@okepread01...

I DON'T CARE ABOUT ECONOMICS!

Eventually you will.

Well, yeah. No profits would lead to just another flag-planting.


I DON'T CARE ABOUT WHETHER AMERICA GOES
BUST OR NOT, AS LONG AS WE BUILD A BASE ON THE MOON! IS THAT GOING TO
HAPPEN IF I VOTE FOR BUSH'S OPPONENT?

Opponents. Plural.
Too soon to tell.

I meant whoever will be left after we've given them guns and locked
them in a room together.


IS IT EVEN GOING TO HAPPEN IF I
VOTE FOR BUSH

Not likely at all.

OR DID HE JUST SAY IT TO GET VOTES FROM PEOPLE LIKE ME,

Precisely.

AND WOULD HE DROP IT LIKE A HOT POTATO ON THE FIRST DAY OF HIS SECOND
TERM?

If it even lasts that long.

I hate you! So what are you even doing here? Shouldn't you be out
there eliminating poverty or something, with all those trillions that
are being wasted in space while people are starving of global warming?



--
__ “A good leader knows when it’s best to ignore the __
('__` screams for help and focus on the bigger picture.� '__`)
//6(6; ©OOL mmiv :^)^\\
`\_-/ http://home.t-online.de/home/ulrich....lmann/redbaron \-_/'

"Ool" wrote in message
...
"Chosp" wrote in message
news:Z_GSb.33417$F15.31456@fed1read06...

AND WOULD HE DROP IT LIKE A HOT POTATO ON THE FIRST DAY OF HIS SECOND
TERM?

If it even lasts that long.

I hate you!

I'm sorry if the cold water of reality dampens your dreams.

So what are you even doing here?

I'm at least as enthusiastic about space exploration and
space travel as you. My blind optimism has unfortunately
been tempered by noting that NASA has had a history of
abandoning almost every major space project before
completion. They abandoned the Apollo missions with
three missions left undone, Skylab was abandoned to
crash uncontrolled. Compton was abandoned before its
time. Triana wasn't even launched. The ISS will be
abandoned by NASA before it is completed. The Shuttle
abandoned without a successor in sight. Hubble
abandoned before it reaches its scientific peak and
without a successor in sight. The list is much, much longer.

As far as Bush is concerned, his approach has been
virtually indistinguishable from that of someone with
intent to entirely eliminate the civilian manned space
program to pay for his military aspirations.
He is eliminating our entire spacefaring capability before
there has been even one penny spent bending metal for
a replacement. At the very least, he has guaranteed us four
years minimum without even the remotest capability of flying
our our own astronauts into space. He is directly putting us
at the mercy of the whims of the Russians. He will not put
a penny down on manned lunar exploration during his entire
time in office - even if he serves another term. He leaves it
up to his successors to cut his half-baked plans due to his
inconceivabley large budget deficits. He will only oversee
cuts while he is in office. His promises ring hollow.
This appears to be one of the most blatant re-election ploys
ever foisted upon the American public.

Shouldn't you be out
there eliminating poverty or something, with all those trillions that
are being wasted in space while people are starving of global warming?

I never, EVER said that money for space exploration should be diverted
in deeper and deeper black holes. Eliminating the space program entirely
would not put a single penny towards eliminating poverty, hunger,
or global warming. The most likely thing to occur would be the
redirection of civilian space money into military space programs.
The weaponization of space is upon us. This is probably the
single greatest long term threat to civilian space exploration we've
ever seen.
That, and, of course, apathy.

"Chosp" wrote in message news:9VQSb.34690$F15.5131@fed1read06...

The weaponization of space is upon us. This is probably the
single greatest long term threat to civilian space exploration we've
ever seen.


Don't you think "weaponization" of space is an inevitable consequence
of colonization, even peaceful one? Build a mass driver on the Moon
and you have something that can be used as a weapon. Build a system
for deflecting Earth-threatening comets and you have a tool for re-di-
recting them towards hitting something, too.

The kinetic energies in space are all potentially destructive, and
once we learn to control them we'll be able to use them for great good
or for great evil. But if we let *that* deter us from advancing then
we should have never invented airplanes, either. Or cars...


BTW, much as I hate the whole SDI program of the Eighties, Clementine
was an offshot of just that pie-in-the-sky project...


--
__ “A good leader knows when it’s best to ignore the __
('__` screams for help and focus on the bigger picture.� '__`)
//6(6; ©OOL mmiv :^)^\\
`\_-/ http://home.t-online.de/home/ulrich....lmann/redbaron \-_/'

The problem is, if all of what he writes were true it would be *so*
depressing. Can only a world in turmoil lead to advances in rocket
science and space travel? Jules Verne made the journey to the Moon
a consequence of the American Civil War. The Germans built the V-2.
The Russians sent people into space and the Americans reacted to that,
all the while knowing that those rockets are important because they
can carry bombs as well.


Well fortunately for the Space Program, there is turmoil aplenty. Much of the
value in a manned space program is political, its purpose is to showcase the
Nations technical achievements in a highly visible format that gets the World's
attention. If scientists play their cards right, they can take advantage of
these opportunities while they occur. Its no coincidence that Bush's space
proposals occur while were fighting a war on terrorism. The public needs a
distraction, I know I certainly do, because this war is often very frusterating
and progress is slow.

I'd like to see something positive in the news for a change besides some
****head Palestinian bitch blowing herself up and leaving two infant children
behind. The Palestinians are the "Bad New Bears", they bring nothing but bad
news, and I get tired of seeing their ugly bearded fanatical faces on
television, or hearing about their subhuman babykilling culture or their petty
demands for territory, which I think they don't deserve. I like to see news
about discoveries on other planets, which don't occur often enough.

I don't want to hear no slanted Arab views, or listen to their stupid,
delusional television propaganda which passes for truth in the Mideast. I would
like the Mideast and their fanatical killer religions to go away and stop
bothering us. I care little for Islam, and the only thing I hear coming out of
it are fanatical suicide terrorist attacks, these creeps don't even belong on
planet Earth, they are not human, human beings don't do these things as its
against humanity's survival instinct. If they want to die and go to paradise, I
wish they would do so now, alone, without taking anyone else with them.
Humanity's accomplishments should be more that their ****headed subhuman
antics, that's why we should aim for higher things.

Tom

Hey, wait a moment... I can't vote for Bush or against him anyway!
I'm German.


Germany can be a great country! Germany can be a strong country! What the
Germans have to do is stop being self absorbed. Germany has the largest economy
in Europe, it is larger that Russia's. Germany can do great hings in space,
Firstly though i wish you would get rid of Gerhard Schroder, this fellow is a
wimp that allows himself to be pushed around by Third World dictators in the
Middle East, and the only way he can prove himself is by being Anti-American.
What you need is a tough-minded Iron Chancellor who does the necessary things
to get Germany's economy going again, who promotes German values and quits this
America bashing. America bashing is cheap, because America harbors no ill will
toward your country, their are real people who do however, dictators who would
like to overthrow democracy, people who are not German, Christian, or care
about western values, Gerhard Schroder does not see this, al he does is conduct
cheap political rheteric against America in order to get reelected at little
perceived risk to German security, but these bad feelings he has generated is a
long term danger, he threatens to split the Atlantic alliance and make it
vulnerable to attack from without. These Third World dictators are scheming and
plotting the West's downfall, they want to impose their violent, murderous
religions and cultures on us. Germany is taking in alot of muslim guest workers
and immigrants, and they breed like rabbits. Nothing is more scary to us, than
an Islamic fanatical German Theocracy bent on waging Jihad against its
neighbors.

Tom

I don't want to hear no slanted Arab views, or listen to their stupid,
delusional television propaganda which passes for truth in the Mideast. I
would
like the Mideast and their fanatical killer religions to go away and stop
bothering us. I care little for Islam, and the only thing I hear coming out
of
it are fanatical suicide terrorist attacks, these creeps don't even belong on
planet Earth, they are not human, human beings don't do these things as its
against humanity's survival instinct. If they want to die and go to paradise,
I
wish they would do so now, alone, without taking anyone else with them.
Humanity's accomplishments should be more that their ****headed subhuman
antics, that's why we should aim for higher things.

Tom



I overly generalize sometimes, I realize that, but they make me so mad
sometimes. Especially with their 9/11 attacks, that I lose respect for their
culture. A lot more understanding is required of Americans than of other
people. The World expects Germans not to kill Jews, they expect white South
Africans to treat blacks fairly, but they expect Americans to be attacked by
muslims while understanding why they do it, where their coming from. They
expect us to sympathise with their economic plight and their poverty while they
attack Americans or cheer on our attackers, its so much easier simply to call
them the enemy since they attack us.

Tom