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NASA, SpaceX Set First Dragon Launch To ISS



 
 
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  #31  
Old December 16th 11, 02:51 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Bob Haller
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Posts: 3,197
Default NASA, SpaceX Set First Dragon Launch To ISS

On Dec 16, 1:20*am, "Matt Wiser" wrote:
"Fred J. McCall" wrote in messagenews:n9ele750mt3jtvn2eh1ii8oj4o86gbq2t0@4ax .com... bob haller wrote:

so you believe that while cutting medicare and social security for the
masses congress will increase or even not cut space spending?


When did they "cut Medicare and social security for the masses".
Reality doesn't even begin to intrude into your delusional little
world, does it?


http://www.dailyfinance.com/2011/12/...ity-is-still-f...


-apart/?icid=maing-grid10%7Chtmlws-sb-bb%7Cdl1%7Csec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D120433



read and attempt to understand the part where benefits are forcibly
reduced


I'll just note that it doesn't support what you've claimed. *Nobody
has cut Medicare or Social Security. *Perhaps you could quote the part
of the article you think supports that claim and tell us just who
"they" are?


--
"Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is
*only stupid."
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * -- Heinrich Heine


Fred, "they" exist in the bobbert's head and nowhere else. Like Clueless
Cobb over on rec.aviation.military, the bobbert lives in his fantasy world,
and when reality intrudes upon it, it's either ignored, casually dismissed,
or spun to fit the fantasy of the day.


fantasy is believing fiancial things will continue as usual for our
country...... if spending isnt slashed dramatically our country will
eventually collapse. bankrupt belly up, unable to do anything, space
included

all spending will be cut, including the entitlements and things that
lack national voter support will be cut more.....

when your cutting the average joes social security and medicare
benefits spending on space anything will take a big hit too.

now fred can continue to live in a dreamworld, since he lives in
fantasy land anyway
  #32  
Old December 16th 11, 05:11 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Jeff Findley[_2_]
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Posts: 1,388
Default NASA, SpaceX Set First Dragon Launch To ISS

In article ,
says...


I'm in favor of SLS/Orion and that doesn't need to be repeated further.


You're a closet socialist, aren't you? I'll bet you're in favor of
having the government take over the health care industry too.

In
case you haven't noticed, NASA is beholden to Congress, and if Congress says
"Thou Shalt build a heavy-lift vehicle" and appropriates the necesary funds,
NASA has to do it. They can't pick and choose what parts of the law (such as
the 2010 Space Authorization Act) to follow.

Stratolaunch will work with small payloads (it's been done with Pegasus
before), but larger ones...you need a conventional rocket for those.

Musk has admitted that he's only got 1% of the lobbying power that the big
boys (Boeing, Lockheed-Martin, ULA, Northrup-Grumman, etc. have). Trying to
convince Congresscritters that Commercial Cargo and Crew is a good way
forward has been a tough sell.


That doesn't negate my position that NASA building and flying its own
launch vehicles and manned spacecraft is a purely socialistic endeavor.
At this point in time commercially developed launch vehicles are
becoming more plentiful. Manned commercial spacecraft are also being
designed and built.

Government competition means that it's harder to convince investors to
put their money into commercial endeavor. Without investors like Musk,
Allen, Branson, and Bigelow, the prospects for commercial launch and
commercial manned spacecraft would be very bleak indeed. How many
start-ups have come and gone over the years due to lack of funds?

I agree that SLS/Orion are politically unstoppable, but that doesn't
mean they're a good thing for the US aerospace industry.

Jeff
--
" Ares 1 is a prime example of the fact that NASA just can't get it
up anymore... and when they can, it doesn't stay up long. "
- tinker
  #35  
Old December 16th 11, 09:46 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Matt Wiser
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Posts: 575
Default NASA, SpaceX Set First Dragon Launch To ISS

On Dec 16, 8:16*am, Jeff Findley wrote:
In article ,
says...



On 14/12/2011 7:37 PM, Matt Wiser wrote:


Maybe there wouldn't be the venom directed at him if he was playing catchup
to an outfit like Boeing or ULA in this regard, maybe not. Until he flies
people to LEO and brings them home, he's an "amateur hobbyist" as one
congressman said when this whole commercial crew concept got going.


Other than you, who has been directing venom at Elong Musk or SpaceX?


Meanwhile Wiser supports SLS/Orion, which is the biggest socialistic
space program since the space shuttle. *Apparently neither Wiser nor the
politicians remember the pain and suffering the shuttle program caused
commercial and military payloads. *We should not be repeating the
mistakes we've made in the past.

Jeff
--
" Ares 1 is a prime example of the fact that NASA just can't get it
* up anymore... and when they can, it doesn't stay up long. "
* *- tinker


When political reality collides with idealism, guess who wins? As
things stand right now, SLS and Orion have the politics behind them.
Musk doesn't. Simple as that. When he starts flying people and
bringing them back safely, then he'll get the accolades that will be
richly deserved. Until then, he's an amateur. At least Burt Rutan put
someone into a sub-orbital flight. Until Musk goes further with a
crewed demo flight (or two, or three)...he hasn't earned the trust
that NASA has earned the past 50 years. Like the Commercial Space
Federation said at their symposium last year: "Stop talking and Start
Flying."
  #36  
Old December 16th 11, 10:12 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Greg \(Strider\) Moore
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Posts: 790
Default NASA, SpaceX Set First Dragon Launch To ISS

"Matt Wiser" wrote in message
...

When political reality collides with idealism, guess who wins? As
things stand right now, SLS and Orion have the politics behind them.
Musk doesn't. Simple as that. When he starts flying people and
bringing them back safely, then he'll get the accolades that will be
richly deserved. Until then, he's an amateur. At least Burt Rutan put
someone into a sub-orbital flight. Until Musk goes further with a
crewed demo flight (or two, or three)...he hasn't earned the trust
that NASA has earned the past 50 years. Like the Commercial Space
Federation said at their symposium last year: "Stop talking and Start
Flying."


Let's see. How many flights has Falcon 9 had? 2.
How many has SLS had? 0.

When's the next Falcon 9 flight scheduled? Next Feb.

When is SLS scheduled? "Err, sometime in the future."

I'd say Musk is flying and NASA is talking.




--
Greg D. Moore President Green Mountain Software
http://www.greenms.com
Help honor our WWII Veterans: http://www.honorflight.org/
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

  #37  
Old December 17th 11, 07:39 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Matt Wiser
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 575
Default NASA, SpaceX Set First Dragon Launch To ISS

On Dec 16, 1:12*pm, "Greg \(Strider\) Moore"
wrote:
"Matt Wiser" *wrote in message

...



When political reality collides with idealism, guess who wins? As
things stand right now, SLS and Orion have the politics behind them.
Musk doesn't. Simple as that. When he starts flying people and
bringing them back safely, then he'll get the accolades that will be
richly deserved. Until then, he's an amateur. At least Burt Rutan put
someone into a sub-orbital flight. Until Musk goes further with a
crewed demo flight (or two, or three)...he hasn't earned the trust
that NASA has earned the past 50 years. Like the Commercial Space
Federation said at their symposium last year: "Stop talking and Start
Flying."


Let's see. *How many flights has Falcon 9 had? *2.
How many has SLS had? 0.

When's the next Falcon 9 flight scheduled? *Next Feb.

When is SLS scheduled? "Err, sometime in the future."

I'd say Musk is flying and NASA is talking.



--
Greg D. Moore * President * * * * * * * * * Green Mountain Softwarehttp://www.greenms.com
Help honor our WWII Veterans:http://www.honorflight.org/
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.


For now. When Musk flies people and returns them safely as part of his
flight test program, then you can say that he has a capability that he
can offer paying customers. Until then.....

Congress has more confidence in NASA than it does Musk. Why do you
think they fully funded SLS and Orion and gave the Commercial Crew
side only 45% of the funds requested-and $100 Mil of that is held up
until NASA ID's the destinations BEO that they intend to fly to. Not
"study" or "workshop presentations. Actually come out and say where
NASA is going to fly exploration missions. And personally, I'm more
comfortable with an established firm like Boeing or Orbital Science
handling the crew side than I am Space X. Those firms have been around
the block and know what they're doing. As Capt. Gene Cernan said in
Congressional testimony regarding the startups: "They don't know what
they don't know." Translation: they will learn things the hard way,
just as NASA did back in the early days.
  #38  
Old December 17th 11, 01:02 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Alan Erskine[_3_]
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Posts: 1,026
Default NASA, SpaceX Set First Dragon Launch To ISS

On 17/12/2011 7:46 AM, Matt Wiser wrote:


When political reality collides with idealism, guess who wins? As
things stand right now, SLS and Orion have the politics behind them.



You mean like Constellation had political support?
  #39  
Old December 17th 11, 01:03 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Bob Haller
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,197
Default NASA, SpaceX Set First Dragon Launch To ISS

On Dec 17, 1:39*am, Matt Wiser wrote:
On Dec 16, 1:12*pm, "Greg \(Strider\) Moore"





wrote:
"Matt Wiser" *wrote in message


....


When political reality collides with idealism, guess who wins? As
things stand right now, SLS and Orion have the politics behind them.
Musk doesn't. Simple as that. When he starts flying people and
bringing them back safely, then he'll get the accolades that will be
richly deserved. Until then, he's an amateur. At least Burt Rutan put
someone into a sub-orbital flight. Until Musk goes further with a
crewed demo flight (or two, or three)...he hasn't earned the trust
that NASA has earned the past 50 years. Like the Commercial Space
Federation said at their symposium last year: "Stop talking and Start
Flying."


Let's see. *How many flights has Falcon 9 had? *2.
How many has SLS had? 0.


When's the next Falcon 9 flight scheduled? *Next Feb.


When is SLS scheduled? "Err, sometime in the future."


I'd say Musk is flying and NASA is talking.


--
Greg D. Moore * President * * * * * * * * * Green Mountain Softwarehttp://www.greenms.com
Help honor our WWII Veterans:http://www.honorflight.org/
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.


For now. When Musk flies people and returns them safely as part of his
flight test program, then you can say that he has a capability that he
can offer paying customers. Until then.....

Congress has more confidence in NASA than it does Musk. Why do you
think they fully funded SLS and Orion and gave the Commercial Crew
side only 45% of the funds requested-and $100 Mil of that is held up
until NASA ID's the destinations BEO that they intend to fly to. Not
"study" or "workshop presentations. Actually come out and say where
NASA is going to fly exploration missions. And personally, I'm more
comfortable with an established firm like Boeing or Orbital Science
handling the crew side than I am Space X. Those firms have been around
the block and know what they're doing. As Capt. Gene Cernan said in
Congressional testimony regarding the startups: "They don't know what
they don't know." Translation: they will learn things the hard way,
just as NASA did back in the early days.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


well its not like the lessons nasa has learned since its beginning a
secret. most are public record, and commercial firms know about the
major losses and causes.

some people here may talk down the new commercial firms because they
can cost the old established companies like boeing with their costs
plus contracts.......

and vendors suppliers etc will shrink and change.

everyone might as well accept and welcome the new commercial firms,
because things are changing
  #40  
Old December 17th 11, 07:35 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Matt Wiser
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 575
Default NASA, SpaceX Set First Dragon Launch To ISS

On Dec 17, 4:02*am, Alan Erskine wrote:
On 17/12/2011 7:46 AM, Matt Wiser wrote:



When political reality collides with idealism, guess who wins? As
things stand right now, SLS and Orion have the politics behind them.


You mean like Constellation had political support?


Yes, it did. Remember the fight over Obama's original FY 11 budget?
Most of the opposition came from CxP supporters-both out of Congress
and in both Houses. Sen. Richard Shelby (R-AL), Sen. Kay Bailey
Hutchinson (R-TX), Sen Mary Landreau (D-LA), Sen. David Vitter (R-LA),
Sen. Bill Nelson (D-FL); the only member of Congress who's a former
Astronaut all led the fight-along with just about every other Senator
or House member who had CxP work going on in his or her district. And
even Rep. Gabby Giffords, before she nearly fell victim to an
assassination attempt, led the fight in the House to save CxP. Heavy
industry lobbying, lots of Congrescritters in affected districts
coming out against it, you name it. SLS and Orion is the result: SLS
is essentially the light variant of Ares V that the Augustine
Committee recommended as their preferred HLV option.
 




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