Sounds Like an Orbiter Can Be Brought Down Without a Crew

This showed up on CNN just after 11:30 am EDT:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/space/0...eut/index.html

By the sounds of it, the physical actions required to return a shuttle
from the ISS (including release of docking latches, deployment of the
landing gear, deployment of the drag chute) can be accomplished without
a crew abord. Sounds a little bit too much like "hot-wiring" a car
;).

Blue skies to you all

John

By the sounds of it, the physical actions required to return a shuttle
from the ISS (including release of docking latches, deployment of the
landing gear, deployment of the drag chute) can be accomplished without
a crew abord. Sounds a little bit too much like "hot-wiring" a car

If it seems ad hoc, it is just because there has not been a
desire/need to make those particular items (which are small in number)
automated before. The key point here is that even with a crew, the
majority of the flying on reentry is done by the autopilot anyway.

Adding a wire to hook the landing gear switch to the computer, for
example, is a bit of a hot-wire, but I'd worry more about the software
to control that switch. I'm not sure what is planned for that.
Flipping the switch from the ground in real-time seems a bit dodgy if
communications is lost at the wrong time (and some of these things
have to happen within a narrow window of seconds).

But they've been working on this for quite some time, so they have
probably thought of these things (I would think - I've not seen a
detailed description of these modifications).

Jim Kingdon wrote in
news
Adding a wire to hook the landing gear switch to the computer, for
example, is a bit of a hot-wire, but I'd worry more about the software
to control that switch. I'm not sure what is planned for that.
Flipping the switch from the ground in real-time seems a bit dodgy if
communications is lost at the wrong time (and some of these things
have to happen within a narrow window of seconds).

The software doesn't flip the switch. It's flipped by a timetagged command
from the ground, uplinked in advance based on the predicted time the switch
needs flipping.

--
JRF

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check "Organization" (I am not assimilated) and
think one step ahead of IBM.

The software doesn't flip the switch. It's flipped by a timetagged command
from the ground, uplinked in advance based on the predicted time the switch
needs flipping.

Ah, OK. Thanks for the information.

Seems like that could work.

John wrote:
This showed up on CNN just after 11:30 am EDT:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/space/0...eut/index.html

By the sounds of it, the physical actions required to return a shuttle
from the ISS (including release of docking latches, deployment of the
landing gear, deployment of the drag chute) can be accomplished without
a crew abord. Sounds a little bit too much like "hot-wiring" a car
;).

Blue skies to you all

John


yeah why not. I mean, the Soviet Shuttle, the Buran, launched,
orbited, re-entered the atmosphere, and landed, all without a crew on
board, in what, 1988 ?

that's the way to go, with even better American technology of course.

Jorge R. Frank wrote:
Jim Kingdon wrote in
news
Adding a wire to hook the landing gear switch to the computer, for
example, is a bit of a hot-wire, but I'd worry more about the software
to control that switch. I'm not sure what is planned for that.
Flipping the switch from the ground in real-time seems a bit dodgy if
communications is lost at the wrong time (and some of these things
have to happen within a narrow window of seconds).

The software doesn't flip the switch. It's flipped by a timetagged command
from the ground, uplinked in advance based on the predicted time the switch
needs flipping.

And this runs on a clockwork mechanism?

Just a thought here, but if re-entry and landing can be automated,
what about launch?

In the event that the Shuttle is deemed too dangerous (due to foam
issues or others) to continue manned service, could it still be used
to complete the station in an unmanned mode?

Docking would probably be an issue, though perhaps not an
insurmountable one.

The station crew would need to handle component installation alone,
which might be a major problem.

Ian Stirling wrote:

The software doesn't flip the switch. It's flipped by a timetagged command
from the ground, uplinked in advance based on the predicted time the switch
needs flipping.

And this runs on a clockwork mechanism?

Yup, a wris****ch and a pigeon

(well, thre pigeons to be exact)

Its time to turn it into cargo only, gut whats easy of lif support,
couches toilet etc. Launch unmanned, revendous a couple miles from ISS,
have ISS soyuz or soyuz revendous and dock with shuttle, then crew
flies and docks shuttle to ISS.

sure they will be shorthanded people wise but no futher lives will be
risked this way.

let shuttle fly till at least station complete.

think out of box box isnt our friend...........

unmanned shuttle can undock and return to earth automatically at white
sands big runway

Ian Stirling wrote in
:

Jorge R. Frank wrote:
Jim Kingdon wrote in
news
Adding a wire to hook the landing gear switch to the computer, for
example, is a bit of a hot-wire, but I'd worry more about the
software to control that switch. I'm not sure what is planned for
that. Flipping the switch from the ground in real-time seems a bit
dodgy if communications is lost at the wrong time (and some of these
things have to happen within a narrow window of seconds).

The software doesn't flip the switch. It's flipped by a timetagged
command from the ground, uplinked in advance based on the predicted
time the switch needs flipping.

And this runs on a clockwork mechanism?

OK, you got me on that technicality. :-) Yes, the commands are received,
queued, and executed by software.

The *point* is that no *new* software had to be *written and certified* to
control those switches; the capability makes use of existing software for
handling uplink commands. That's the main reason NASA was able to do this
so quickly and cheaply.

--
JRF

Reply-to address spam-proofed - to reply by E-mail,
check "Organization" (I am not assimilated) and
think one step ahead of IBM.