Is gravity the killer of dimensions?

Here's a hypothetical. If Superstring theory is right and there are
extra dimensions beyond the 3 space and 1 time dimension, and that those
extra dimensions are just rolled up into loops that are probably the
size range of the Planck Length, then is it possible that reason we
can't access those extra dimensions is because we're stuck by an
extra-dimensional and superstrong form of gravity to the surface of a
3-dimensional membrane?

Let's pull back a little and look at life on our existing 3-D universe.
Although we're supposedly 3-dimensional objects, we mostly just have
freedom of movement in only 2 dimensions while on the Earth, because
we're stuck to the surface by gravity. We can access the 3rd dimension
(height) but only by expending some large-ish amount of energy. If we
were out in space, and unhindered by gravity, we'd have freedom of
movement in all 3 dimensions. Now if we're not on Earth and instead on
some kind of Super-Earth where we weigh more, then we'd have to expend
even more energy to access the 3rd dimension. Now let's get even more
extreme: if we were on the surface of a white dwarf or a neutron star,
then we'd have been crushed down and splattered across its surface into
a stain no more than one or two atoms thick! So to access the 3rd
dimension would require even more energy, almost an impossible amount of
energy, and for all intents and purposes, we'd be 2-dimensional objects
on this surface.

Then let's get even more extreme, how about if we're approaching a black
hole? Here there's no surface to land on and get splattered on, like
with the white dwarf or neutron star. Instead as we approach the event
horizon, we first get spaghettified into a one-dimensional stream of
atoms. Then after we've passed through the event horizon, we approach
the center, and we get crushed into a zero-dimensional singularity. So
the progression is obvious here, the stronger the gravity, the less
dimensions there are.

I'm wondering if it also goes the opposite way? Let's say as gravity
becomes less and less stronger, that more than 3 dimensions start to
open up to us? And I'm wondering if the strange behavior that we have
attributed to Dark Matter and Dark Energy are just the behaviour of
extra dimensions opening up?

Yousuf Khan

Yousuf Khan wrote:

Here's a hypothetical. If Superstring theory is right and there are
extra dimensions beyond the 3 space and 1 time dimension, and that those
extra dimensions are just rolled up into loops that are probably the
size range of the Planck Length, then is it possible that reason we
can't access those extra dimensions is because we're stuck by an
extra-dimensional and superstrong form of gravity to the surface of a
3-dimensional membrane?

This obsession with scale kills all decent ideas.

Scale itself is a dimension.

As you travel up and down it, there is nothing in the good
book of all knowledge which says why scale is the way it is
or what may be predicted to exist at each scale.

On 25/12/2013 11:32 AM, 7 wrote:
Yousuf Khan wrote:

Here's a hypothetical. If Superstring theory is right and there are
extra dimensions beyond the 3 space and 1 time dimension, and that those
extra dimensions are just rolled up into loops that are probably the
size range of the Planck Length, then is it possible that reason we
can't access those extra dimensions is because we're stuck by an
extra-dimensional and superstrong form of gravity to the surface of a
3-dimensional membrane?

This obsession with scale kills all decent ideas.

How's that?

Scale itself is a dimension.

As you travel up and down it, there is nothing in the good
book of all knowledge which says why scale is the way it is
or what may be predicted to exist at each scale.

There's a lot of physical phenomenon that depend on themselves to
determine their final answer. The logarithmic and exponential scales are
examples of something that changes with its own self.

Yousuf Khan

On a sunny day (Wed, 25 Dec 2013 00:13:41 -0500) it happened Yousuf Khan
wrote in :

Here's a hypothetical. If Superstring theory is right and there are
extra dimensions beyond the 3 space and 1 time dimension, and that those
extra dimensions are just rolled up into loops that are probably the
size range of the Planck Length, then is it possible that reason we
can't access those extra dimensions is because we're stuck by an
extra-dimensional and superstrong form of gravity to the surface of a
3-dimensional membrane?

You know, I will byte.
All the bull**** of string theory, other gravity theories.
Let's get practical for a moment.
If somebody can create gravity in the lab, also change it, neutralize it (I am aware of Podkletnov's experiments),
then we can look a bit deeper.
In physics, mathematicians have this habit of claiming things they had nothing to do with.
The wheel was invented before Pi was found.
We observe some effect in experiments, and to quantify it, and for NO other reason, use math, from that we can do some engineering.
The math is ALWAYS incomplete, as it in no way is or can be a complete description of nature,
as we do not have the in depth picture of nature, just scratching the surface.
So without experiment we _cannot_ go deeper.
To turn the world upside down is take the math and make a theory from that, that is not even verifiable, like
string theory, and is the mathematical equivalent of having sex with yourself.
Nothing comes from it, it is 100% safe, and can take any form you like, nobody will object or can object.

On 12/25/13, 4:44 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
If somebody can create gravity in the lab, also change it, neutralize it (I am aware of Podkletnov's experiments),
then we can look a bit deeper.


Ref: Hartle, "Gravity: An Introduction to Einstein's General
Relativity", Addison Wesley (2003)

"A few properties of the gravitational interaction that help explain
when gravity is important can already be seen from the gravitational
force law

F_grav = G m_1 m_2 / r_12^2

1. Gravity is a universal interaction in Newtonian theory between all
mass, and, since E = mc^2, in relativistic gravity between all forms
of energy.

2. Gravity is unscreened. There are no negative gravitational charges
to cancel positive ones, and therefore it is not possible to shield
(screen) the gravitational interaction. Gravity is always
attractive.

3. Gravity is a long-range interaction. The Newtonian force law is a
1/r^2 interaction. There is no length scale that sets a range for
gravitational interactions as there is for the strong and weak
interactions.


4. Gravity is the weakest of the four fundamental interactions acting
between individual elementary particles at accessible energy scales.
The ratio of the gravitational attraction to the electromagnetic
repulsion between two protons separated by a distance r is

F_grav G m_p^2 / r^2 G m_p^2
-------- = -------------------- = ------------- ~ 10^-36
F_elec e^2 / (4 pi e_0 r^2) (e^2/4pi e_0)

where m_p is the mass of the proton and e is its charge.


These four facts explain a great deal about the role gravity plays in
physical phenomena. They explain, for example, why, although it is
the weakest force, gravity governs the organization of the universe
on the largest distance scales of astrophysics and cosmology. These
distance scales are far beyond the subatomic ranges of the strong and
the weak interactions. Electromagnetic interactions COULD be long
range were there any large-scale objects with net electric charge.
But the universe is electrically neutral, and electromagnetic forces
are so much stronger than gravitational forces that any large-scale
net charge is quickly neutralized. Gravity is left to govern the
structure of the universe on the largest scales.

On 25/12/2013 5:44 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Wed, 25 Dec 2013 00:13:41 -0500) it happened Yousuf Khan
wrote in :

Here's a hypothetical. If Superstring theory is right and there are
extra dimensions beyond the 3 space and 1 time dimension, and that those
extra dimensions are just rolled up into loops that are probably the
size range of the Planck Length, then is it possible that reason we
can't access those extra dimensions is because we're stuck by an
extra-dimensional and superstrong form of gravity to the surface of a
3-dimensional membrane?

You know, I will byte.
All the bull**** of string theory, other gravity theories.
Let's get practical for a moment.

I am suggesting a practical here. Even if Superstring theory cannot
survive after they disprove Supersymmetry: that's rapidly happening at
the LHC, it's only the upgrade hiatus at the LHC that is still keeping
SuSy viable at the moment. They can take a step back, unhook the Super
from Superstring and be left with original String theory. Still have
predictions of extra dimensions, etc. Let's assume maybe there is
something to the extra dimensions part of this theory, even if there is
nothing to the extra particles part of this theory.

If the number of dimensions are flexible and start to show up as gravity
loosens, it might explain why gravity seems stronger even though it is
weaker. Some of the particles might be taking extra trips into higher
dimensions thus they don't get very far away within the existing three
dimensions, thus giving the illusion of Dark Matter holding things
together at larger scales; even light takes slightly longer around
giving the effect of gravitational lenses. Then at even larger scales,
gravity loosens even more, and the opposite effect occurs, and things
start to move away faster, thus giving the illusion of Dark Energy.

Yousuf Khan

Yousuf Khan wrote:

You know, I will byte.
All the bull**** of string theory, other gravity theories.
Let's get practical for a moment.

I am suggesting a practical here. Even if Superstring theory cannot

You cannot suggest that. Please suggest something else, idiot.

Wizard wrote in news:l9ftoa$c2c$4
@speranza.aioe.org:

Yousuf Khan wrote:

You know, I will byte.
All the bull**** of string theory, other gravity theories.
Let's get practical for a moment.

I am suggesting a practical here. Even if Superstring theory cannot

You cannot suggest that. Please suggest something else, idiot.


The moron nymshifting troll (Ditchh at his last name) tries again to be me.
It doesn't work.