What if -- No VAB

In article ,
(Derek Lyons) writes:
OM om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_researc h_facility.org
wrote:
...Between _Korolev_ and Asif's book, the general concensus appears to
be that no Soviet equivalent of the VAB was built because of the
secrecy involved in the program. Had something that *big* been built
in or near Tyuratam/Baikonur, it would have shown up on the KEYHOLE
photos bigger than anything. By doing the assembly horizontally, they
could do so in a building that, if only two to four stories tall,
could have appeared as anything from a big warehouse to a medium-sized
factory, with nary a clue to the outsider that something like an N-1
was being built inside.

It appears that someone hasn't thought things through.

First off, it's pretty easy to determine the height of a building in
overhead imagery, and the existing interior photos of the N-1 assembly
plant plainly show something in the 8-10 story range. Given the
(equally easy to determine) square footage of the building, it would
be pretty clear this was an industrial building vice an office
building. (You can also tell by observing parking lots,
transportation arrangements, etc.. Which reveal the number of bodies
working in the building and what is expected to come in and out.)

It's also a lot easier to camouflage a lower building than a high
one. One consideration by the Soviets may well have been that we
hadn't yet determined the topography of the entire Soviet Union yet,
and they could turn a large flat building into a rolling hill before
anybody noticed. Of course, they seem to have missed the point that
mapping the Soviet Union was our highest priority at that time. Since
their maps were so poor (Both on purpose, to mislead foreigners, and
inadvertantly, because Soviet Workmanship pervaded all levels of their
society.) that we decided to roll our own.


--
Pete Stickney
A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
bad measures. -- Daniel Webster

Peter Stickney wrote:

It's also a lot easier to camouflage a lower building than a high
one. One consideration by the Soviets may well have been that we
hadn't yet determined the topography of the entire Soviet Union yet,
and they could turn a large flat building into a rolling hill before
anybody noticed.


A rolling hill with multiple rail lines leading out of it toward two
giant launch pads? That's not going to arose any suspicion, is it?
A far more likely scenario is Kazakhstan's weather, which has very
severe storms- they were probably concerned that a building the height
of the VAB would not only be in danger of being blown over, but the
target of a lot of lightning strikes... they put those giant lightning
arrestor towers around each of the N-1 pads for that reason:
http://www.energia.ru/energia/launch...energia-03.jpg
http://www.jump.net/~pkrouse/hardware/n1/n1.jpg

Pat

In article ,
Pat Flannery writes:


Peter Stickney wrote:

It's also a lot easier to camouflage a lower building than a high
one. One consideration by the Soviets may well have been that we
hadn't yet determined the topography of the entire Soviet Union yet,
and they could turn a large flat building into a rolling hill before
anybody noticed.


A rolling hill with multiple rail lines leading out of it toward two
giant launch pads? That's not going to arose any suspicion, is it?
A far more likely scenario is Kazakhstan's weather, which has very
severe storms- they were probably concerned that a building the height
of the VAB would not only be in danger of being blown over, but the
target of a lot of lightning strikes... they put those giant lightning
arrestor towers around each of the N-1 pads for that reason:
http://www.energia.ru/energia/launch...energia-03.jpg
http://www.jump.net/~pkrouse/hardware/n1/n1.jpg

A good point about the weather. Hmm - do they have tornados out
there, about the only place I know of that gets them is teh
U.S. flatlands, and the topography seems similar. That might be a
factor. That's a very good point about the lightning - it's not too
bright to be the tallest thing around in a lightning storm, especially
if you're filles with rocket fuel & oxidizer.

But then, the Soviet Beurocracy didn't grind fast, or exceedingly
well, so who knows what was on the Work Order.
You wouldn't think that an inflatable rubber submarine with a 90
degree bend in the middle was a good idea, either. That didn't stop
the Sovs. Or teh decades they spent perfecting a specialized aircraft
to act as a high-altitude Balloon Interceptor.

--
Pete Stickney
A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
bad measures. -- Daniel Webster

Hmm - do they have tornados out
there, about the only place I know of that gets them is teh
U.S. flatlands, and the topography seems similar.

excuse me very hilly pittsburgh has had some terrible tornados. its not limited
to flatlands
HAVE A GREAT DAY!

In article ,
(bob haller) writes:
Hmm - do they have tornados out
there, about the only place I know of that gets them is teh
U.S. flatlands, and the topography seems similar.

excuse me very hilly pittsburgh has had some terrible tornados. its not limited
to flatlands

News for yah, Sport - Pittsburgh ain't hilly. at least not in any
sense that would have an effect on weather patterns. Worcester
Massachusetts (Let's make him try to pronounce it, it'll tie him up
for days) is also somewhat surrounded by hills - 7 little ones, and it
got nailed in the maid '50s with one of the worst tornados ever. The
main trend of the topography around both areas is, however, rather
flat. In order to actually deform the storm systems that produce
tornados, you need something that will develop significant updrafts
possibly even standing waves. Them ain't it.

If you knew what hills really were, you's understand the significance
of 4,000', and what 10' of snow on the ground really looks like.

--
Pete Stickney
A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
bad measures. -- Daniel Webster