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Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.



 
 
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  #31  
Old July 5th 17, 01:20 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.physics,rec.arts.sf.science,sci.electronics.design
Jeff Findley[_6_]
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Posts: 2,307
Default Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.

In article , says...

Jeff Findley wrote:

Also, the other option that 3D printing opens up is more shape optimized
parts. These things are optimized so that "useless" mass is simply gone
from the design. They tend to look "organic" rather than "machined" due
to their complex shapes. I've heard this called "light-weighting" parts
from management types.


Sometimes you light-weight a part too far. Back in 1985, my mechanic
called me in to look at a repair. The new brake disk was much heavier
and much less "organic". But the original one warped because it
didn't have enough mass to absorb the heat till it could be radiated
away, and the manufacturer provided a much simpler but heavier
replacement part.

The new part was so much different looking than the original one that
he wanted my permission to proceed.

(As a 400 pound guy who likes to drive econobox microcars, I always
seem to have alignment and brake problems only on the front left.
Hmmm?)


Yes, engineers and "bean counters" sometimes cut too far.

Jeff
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  #34  
Old July 5th 17, 05:59 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.physics,rec.arts.sf.science,sci.electronics.design
[email protected]
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Default Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.

In sci.physics Jeff Findley wrote:
In article ,
says...
Landing gear, and all other structural moving parts, is surely another
area on aircraft which could use this technology. Landing gear make up
a significant percentage of an aircraft's total dry mass, so this would
be a likely candidate for shape optimization and 3D printing.


Again, you are talking about niche applications and landing gear are not
that big a part of an aircrafts weight.


From Wikipedia (because I don't have time to look up a "better" source):

The undercarriage is typically 4-5% of the takeoff mass and can
even reach 7%.

That's significant in aerospace.

Have you ever looked at the interior structures of an aircraft?

Yes, many times. I've got a b.s. in aerospace engineering, so I know
the basics. Many of our customers are aerospace, so I have to
understand the domain.

3D printing is, and always will be, a niche manufacturing method.

Handy at times, but certainly not a world changer.

This is quite short sighted. I'm sure the same was said about
composites when they were in their infancy. Today it would be quite
hard (i.e. likely impossible) to point to something commercial that
flies and carries people commercially that has absolutely zero composite
content.


An irrelevant red herring to the subject of 3D printing. There are a HUGE
number of different composite materials out there and it has taken well
over half a century for most aircraft to have even a small fraction of
composite materials in their construction.

Note the word "most".


How is an example of the adoption of new materials/manufacturing
processes not applicable to 3D printing which is another example of the
same thing? Are you deliberately being intellectually dishonest?


Well, if you want to compare composite materials and 3D printing, composite
materials have been around for over a half century and the usage is still
trivial compared to traditional materials in just about all products other
than camper shells and ski boats.

So we can expect 3D printers to still be niche in 50 years.

I can say that shape optimization coupled with 3D printing is one of the
"bleeding edge" topics in my industry. It's really no secret, you can
surely Google hundreds of articles on the topic. I really can't go into
further details, but my profession is in writing engineering software,
so I ought to know.


Whoopee. It is still niche.


You're posting to sci.space groups. It's quite significant to the
aerospace industry. If you don't like it, find another group to pester.


I didn't choose the groups and it is being posted to other groups as
well.

In the overall scheme of things, aerospace is a niche industry.

Does anyone care about a shape optimized 4 slice toaster or filing cabinet?


This isn't sci.toaster.


Nor is is sci.niche.


Jeff


--
Jim Pennino
  #35  
Old July 5th 17, 06:47 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.physics,rec.arts.sf.science,sci.electronics.design
Thomas Koenig
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Posts: 47
Default Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.

Jeff Findley schrieb:

If the "mass were already gone from the design" then GE would not be
pouring literally millions of dollars into developing a one meter cubed
3D printer presumably for printing aircraft engine parts.


One nice thing about 3D printing is that you can create voids
in places you cannot with conventional technologies.

This can help a _lot_ when putting in cooling channels (wildly
important for turbine manufacturers who always fight for that extra
10 K of maximum temperature to get that extra bit of efficiency), or
when you can put in a void where you don't actually need material,
and all it would do would be to add mass and/or create thermal
stress on heating up or cooling down.
  #37  
Old July 5th 17, 07:11 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.physics,rec.arts.sf.science,sci.electronics.design
Fred J. McCall[_3_]
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Posts: 10,018
Default Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.

wrote:

In sci.physics Jeff Findley wrote:
In article ,

says...
Landing gear, and all other structural moving parts, is surely another
area on aircraft which could use this technology. Landing gear make up
a significant percentage of an aircraft's total dry mass, so this would
be a likely candidate for shape optimization and 3D printing.

Again, you are talking about niche applications and landing gear are not
that big a part of an aircrafts weight.


From Wikipedia (because I don't have time to look up a "better" source):

The undercarriage is typically 4-5% of the takeoff mass and can
even reach 7%.

That's significant in aerospace.

Have you ever looked at the interior structures of an aircraft?

Yes, many times. I've got a b.s. in aerospace engineering, so I know
the basics. Many of our customers are aerospace, so I have to
understand the domain.

3D printing is, and always will be, a niche manufacturing method.

Handy at times, but certainly not a world changer.

This is quite short sighted. I'm sure the same was said about
composites when they were in their infancy. Today it would be quite
hard (i.e. likely impossible) to point to something commercial that
flies and carries people commercially that has absolutely zero composite
content.

An irrelevant red herring to the subject of 3D printing. There are a HUGE
number of different composite materials out there and it has taken well
over half a century for most aircraft to have even a small fraction of
composite materials in their construction.

Note the word "most".


How is an example of the adoption of new materials/manufacturing
processes not applicable to 3D printing which is another example of the
same thing? Are you deliberately being intellectually dishonest?


Well, if you want to compare composite materials and 3D printing, composite
materials have been around for over a half century and the usage is still
trivial compared to traditional materials in just about all products other
than camper shells and ski boats.


Jesus, get back to your trailer park until you gain some experience in
the real world.


So we can expect 3D printers to still be niche in 50 years.


Well, YOU can no doubt expect that, but you're pretty well known for
having your head up and locked.

I can say that shape optimization coupled with 3D printing is one of the
"bleeding edge" topics in my industry. It's really no secret, you can
surely Google hundreds of articles on the topic. I really can't go into
further details, but my profession is in writing engineering software,
so I ought to know.

Whoopee. It is still niche.


You're posting to sci.space groups. It's quite significant to the
aerospace industry. If you don't like it, find another group to pester.


I didn't choose the groups and it is being posted to other groups as
well.


You didn't? Do you not know how your newsreader works, or what?


--
"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the
truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
-- Thomas Jefferson
  #40  
Old July 6th 17, 02:02 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.physics,rec.arts.sf.science,sci.electronics.design
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 47
Default Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.

On Wed, 05 Jul 2017 11:08:21 -0700, Fred J. McCall
wrote:

wrote:

In sci.physics John Larkin wrote:

There is one very successful additive manufacturing process: casting.


Because it is fast and cheap.


Good, fast, cheap - choose any two. It's obvious where the Chimp
lives...


Are you saying that castings are not good?
 




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