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NASA Culture versus Corporate Culture
Despite all its human flaws, the "NASA culture" has a strong can-do,
will-do attitude that makes it possible for them to achieve what organizations ten times their size cannot. This sets a very bad standard for industry, giving the shareholders and investors a high expectation of their capabilities. Without the shining example of NASA, industry can plod along and people are perfectly content with shoddy products, nominal innovation, high prices, and poor customer support. I would even go so far as to say that the aerospace industry was to blame for the Challenger disaster, not NASA employees. Industry has motive, the employees do not. |
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NASA Culture versus Corporate Culture
"Bill Clark" wrote ...
Despite all its human flaws, the "NASA culture" has a strong can-do, will-do attitude that makes it possible for them to achieve what organizations ten times their size cannot. I am neither surprised nor impressed that NASA can achieve things that an organisation like Microsoft cannot. Especially since I understand there are a number of legal obstacles to keep it this way. John |
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NASA Culture versus Corporate Culture
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NASA Culture versus Corporate Culture
I don't know if one should compare NASA culture with corporate
culture, I think that it should be instead compare with military culture. |
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NASA Culture versus Corporate Culture
(Bill Clark)
I would even go so far as to say that the aerospace industry was to blame for the Challenger disaster, not NASA employees. Industry has motive, the employees do not. I would go so far as to say that I don't really believe you give a **** either way. Let me venture a wild guess. In order to obtain a Ph.D, the research topic must be approved by a faculty advisor. You submitted a project that violated conventional physics. Your advisor told you that your project was unacceptable. You insisted that your approach was valid, at which point the advisor realized that he had a nut case on his hands and the rest is history. Is this approximately what happened? |
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NASA Culture versus Corporate Culture
"Jorge R. Frank" wrote in message ... (Bill Clark) wrote in om: Despite all its human flaws, the "NASA culture" has a strong can-do, will-do attitude that makes it possible for them to achieve what organizations ten times their size cannot. ... I would even go so far as to say that the aerospace industry was to blame for the Challenger disaster, not NASA employees. Industry has motive, the employees do not. You may go that far, but you'd be wrong. The historical record is quite clear: engineers at Morton Thiokol (the "aerospace industry" you disparage) urged NASA to scrub the launch of Challenger. They were overruled by their management, under direct pressure from NASA. That "can-do" attitude can get deadly when it turns into "prove to me it's unsafe to launch." -- JRF Are you somehow claiming that Thiokol management was part of NASA and not part of the aerospace industry? Would NASA still have launched even if Thiokol management backed up their engineers and said it was unsafe to launch? I feel there was plenty of blame to go around and that NASA must bear the onus of not fixing the problem after the partial burnthoughs were reported (sort of like previous hits from ice on Columbia). However, it was Thiokol management that told their engineers to "put on their management hats" not NASA, unless you have some new evidence to provide. Mike Walsh |
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NASA Culture versus Corporate Culture
"Mike Walsh" wrote in
: "Jorge R. Frank" wrote in message ... (Bill Clark) wrote in om: Despite all its human flaws, the "NASA culture" has a strong can-do, will-do attitude that makes it possible for them to achieve what organizations ten times their size cannot. ... I would even go so far as to say that the aerospace industry was to blame for the Challenger disaster, not NASA employees. Industry has motive, the employees do not. You may go that far, but you'd be wrong. The historical record is quite clear: engineers at Morton Thiokol (the "aerospace industry" you disparage) urged NASA to scrub the launch of Challenger. They were overruled by their management, under direct pressure from NASA. That "can-do" attitude can get deadly when it turns into "prove to me it's unsafe to launch." Are you somehow claiming that Thiokol management was part of NASA and not part of the aerospace industry? No, I am not. You've been arguing with Ed Wright too much. Would NASA still have launched even if Thiokol management backed up their engineers and said it was unsafe to launch? I feel there was plenty of blame to go around and that NASA must bear the onus of not fixing the problem after the partial burnthoughs were reported (sort of like previous hits from ice on Columbia). They must also bear the onus for applying pressure to Thiokol. However, it was Thiokol management that told their engineers to "put on their management hats" not NASA, unless you have some new evidence to provide. Thiokol management said that out of an overriding desire to tell NASA what they wanted to hear. Under the circumstances (overwhelming pressure from NASA upper management to concur with the launch decision), it would have made absolutely no difference if they had been NASA middle managers overriding NASA engineers - the issue is one of power, not culture. -- JRF Reply-to address spam-proofed - to reply by E-mail, check "Organization" (I am not assimilated) and think one step ahead of IBM. |
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NASA Culture versus Corporate Culture
"Jorge R. Frank" wrote in
: Thiokol management said that out of an overriding desire to tell NASA what they wanted to hear. Under the circumstances (overwhelming pressure from NASA upper management to concur with the launch decision), it would have made absolutely no difference if they had been NASA middle managers overriding NASA engineers - the issue is one of power, not culture. I don't think so. In the old government structure before all the political correctness nonsense and gender and racial balancing. A government engineer could make an honest descision even if it was contrary to management and not get fired. While in industry the engineers had to worry more about there jobs. However in the old days the managers where more qualifed and had a higher IQ they they seem to have today. At least that what my 26 years in government work has showed me. The trouble is the managers of today know less than the engineers but they have more power to screw things up. A culture has arisen that makes managers think they know more than the engineers under them. Its sort of like the math teachers that currently teach in the schools. The math teachers have all sorts of credientals that are nothing more than rewards for kissing up to the system but in fact its just paper they don't know or care about mathematics yet a phony system has beem created to pretend they know something about mathematics. As a consequence I see in the college freshmen a large number of students who hate math and can't even do basic arithmetic. They are a lost generation that will not be able to function as well as the previous generation. America is in real trouble and I for one fear the current generation does not have the smarts to ever go back to the moon unless somehow we change directions. Its not a money problem its a culture problem. Where I live the kids on the other side of the border Juarez are an order of magnitude brighter in mathematics and science so its not money its just a culture of keeping the best out of teaching science and mathematics to our kids. David A. Scott -- My Crypto code http://cryptography.org/cgi-bin/cryp...c/scott19u.zip http://cryptography.org/cgi-bin/cryp...c/scott16u.zip http://www.jim.com/jamesd/Kong/scott19u.zip old version My Compression code http://bijective.dogma.net/ **TO EMAIL ME drop the roman "five" ** Disclaimer:I am in no way responsible for any of the statements made in the above text. For all I know I might be drugged. As a famous person once said "any cryptograhic system is only as strong as its weakest link" |
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NASA Culture versus Corporate Culture
For the record, I would like to clarify that the poster listed as "Bill
Clark", and who is having collegiate difficulties, is NOT, and should NOT, be confused with myself, Bill Clarke (William Clarke with an "e" on Clarke), a former Flight Dynamics Officer at Mission Control. Not that anyone probably cares, but I don't want to be mistaken for this guy. I lurk and watch my former co-workers and friends continue their efforts at JSC, new jobs, and in this forum, and I want them to know without a doubt "it ain't Clutch!" Hello to all, especially Mike, Jorge, and Roger. Keep up the great work. Watching RTF with great interest......... Cheers, Clutch "Jorge R. Frank" wrote in message ... (Bill Clark) wrote in om: Despite all its human flaws, the "NASA culture" has a strong can-do, will-do attitude that makes it possible for them to achieve what organizations ten times their size cannot. ... I would even go so far as to say that the aerospace industry was to blame for the Challenger disaster, not NASA employees. Industry has motive, the employees do not. You may go that far, but you'd be wrong. The historical record is quite clear: engineers at Morton Thiokol (the "aerospace industry" you disparage) urged NASA to scrub the launch of Challenger. They were overruled by their management, under direct pressure from NASA. That "can-do" attitude can get deadly when it turns into "prove to me it's unsafe to launch." -- JRF Reply-to address spam-proofed - to reply by E-mail, check "Organization" (I am not assimilated) and think one step ahead of IBM. |
#10
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NASA Culture versus Corporate Culture
"David A. Scott" wrote in message
I don't think so. In the old government structure before all the political correctness nonsense and gender and racial balancing. A government engineer could make an honest descision even if it was contrary to management and not get fired. While in industry the engineers had to worry more about there jobs. However in the old days the managers where more qualifed and had a higher IQ they they seem to have today. At least that what my 26 years in government work has showed me. it certainly didn't show you how to use good grammar and spelling... Where I live the kids on the other side of the border Juarez are an order of magnitude brighter in mathematics and science so its not money its just a culture of keeping the best out of teaching science and mathematics to our kids. thank you for making the brave sacrifice of not being a teacher, sport g -- Terrell Miller "It's one thing to burn down the **** house and another thing entirely to install plumbing" -PJ O'Rourke |
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