Celestron, China and the New World Order (was Orange County Register: Celestron Down, Meade Sinking)

Don't worry!

Buy American! - but make sure it is American!
Some posts in this thread have made the point that a lot of American scopes
are actually to some degree made in 'China'. There is a solution to this:

Insist that "Made in America" actually means that!

I for one have been outraged by the cynicism of Corporates that advertise
goods and wares as "Made in America" or "Made in Australia", and charge
accordingly.
When in actual fact the product was manufactured in 'China' and assembled in
America.
Then the Corporates charge $500 for it when it cost them $5 to make.
By using slave labor in 'China'.
And the quality of the goods reflects this. I have a Chinese flashlight
sitting on my shelves ready for repairs, Why - because it lasted only 12
months (just out of warranty). They really do have planned obsolescence down
to a fine art! It only cost $10 for a 1 Million Candela flashlight! but
thats not the point is it? I want to get more that 12 months use out of it
before I buy a new one!

Don't get me wrong - I have no problem with buying Chinese goods, as long as
they are branded as such, and are of good quality.

I also want Televue and Nagler and Questar and Astrophysics when (if ever I
can afford them)

- why?

Because these brands are more than just a 'Brand' - (another word for con
job these days)
- they are a passion, and are borne as a consequence of a passion, to make
the best possible instrument, bar none
- they are not built to make the greatest amount of profit possible, yet!
hence they are like jewels to me - and thus cheaper does not mean better,
there is emotion involved here!

Now mind, I do want to pay a fair price too!

And thats the key isn't it? - A FAIR price.

If we insisted that the poor slob on the production line in China (or
anywhere) actually got a fair cut of MY MONEY
- then we would see more of a parity.
Then these goods would compete on the field of intrinsic worth rather than
perceived value.

And the Corporates would not realise such obscene markups.

THIS is what I most strongly object to - jobs being exported to slave labor
camps, and brands being used to deceive.
I don't like paying 2 to 3 times the American price for Meade or Celestron
(in Australia), when I know those goods were at least partially manufactured
in China!
Monopolistic practises and distribution channels never work!
People ARE NOT STUPID, and will not tolerated being manipulated by the
Corporates (well for too long anyway).


But there are other factors coming into this:

1) Google for Nathan Myhrvold and IP (thats intellectual property)
2) Google for 3d printers
3) Google for Nanotech
4) Google for MIT's universal factories

see a pattern here?

Pretty soon the means of production will be decoupled from the labor force.
We will spec what we want to an expert system, which will design the gadget
(fully cognisant of material limitations, IP, legislated requirements etc)
and then PRINT IT OUT! Then you will pick it up and use it. (or not - what
you just printed may be a house or a car... or a Lung)

Sound like sci-fi - NO ITS NOT!!!!

google for how to print an Organ (the wet stuff, not the musical
instrument)

This is happening right now.
It will probably take 20yrs to 'start' affecting society, and 50yrs to
really kick in.

Poor China!

This does not help us now tho does it?
What to do? well here are some thoughts

1) Isn't it ironic that the modern captains of Capitalism are the closest
thing to Stalin we have at the moment!
2) Isn't it ironic that the Chinese Communist/Capitalists are mortally
afraid of Trade Unions!
3) Isn't it ironic that the most aggresive buyers of shares are Union
Members (and very scared fatcats)
4) We need to stop the stampede towards certain Corporates accumulating
software patents and IP patents in general. NOW!
5) Make sure that "Made In America" MEANS IT! That means manufactured and
assembled in America.
6) Make sure that a fair percentage of your money GOES TO THE PERSON WHO
MADE THE PRODUCT!

7) CUT OUT THE MIDDLEMAN! Like the artist formerly known as Prince, sell/get
your wares directly to/from the consumer/producer!

cheers!

thanatos wrote:
Don't worry!

Buy American! - but make sure it is American!
Some posts in this thread have made the point that a lot of American
scopes
are actually to some degree made in 'China'. There is a solution to
this:

Insist that "Made in America" actually means that!

I for one have been outraged by the cynicism of Corporates that
advertise
goods and wares as "Made in America" or "Made in Australia", and
charge
accordingly.
When in actual fact the product was manufactured in 'China' and
assembled in
America.
Then the Corporates charge $500 for it when it cost them $5 to make.
By using slave labor in 'China'.
And the quality of the goods reflects this. I have a Chinese
flashlight
sitting on my shelves ready for repairs, Why - because it lasted only
12
months (just out of warranty). They really do have planned
obsolescence down
to a fine art! It only cost $10 for a 1 Million Candela flashlight!
but
thats not the point is it? I want to get more that 12 months use out
of it
before I buy a new one!

Don't get me wrong - I have no problem with buying Chinese goods, as
long as
they are branded as such, and are of good quality.

I also want Televue and Nagler and Questar and Astrophysics when (if
ever I
can afford them)

- why?

Because these brands are more than just a 'Brand' - (another word for
con
job these days)
- they are a passion, and are borne as a consequence of a passion,
to make
the best possible instrument, bar none
- they are not built to make the greatest amount of profit possible,
yet!
hence they are like jewels to me - and thus cheaper does not mean
better,
there is emotion involved here!

Now mind, I do want to pay a fair price too!

And thats the key isn't it? - A FAIR price.

If we insisted that the poor slob on the production line in China (or
anywhere) actually got a fair cut of MY MONEY
- then we would see more of a parity.
Then these goods would compete on the field of intrinsic worth rather
than
perceived value.

And the Corporates would not realise such obscene markups.

THIS is what I most strongly object to - jobs being exported to slave
labor
camps, and brands being used to deceive.
I don't like paying 2 to 3 times the American price for Meade or
Celestron
(in Australia), when I know those goods were at least partially
manufactured
in China!
Monopolistic practises and distribution channels never work!
People ARE NOT STUPID, and will not tolerated being manipulated by
the
Corporates (well for too long anyway).


But there are other factors coming into this:

1) Google for Nathan Myhrvold and IP (thats intellectual property)
2) Google for 3d printers
3) Google for Nanotech
4) Google for MIT's universal factories

see a pattern here?

Pretty soon the means of production will be decoupled from the labor
force.
We will spec what we want to an expert system, which will design the
gadget
(fully cognisant of material limitations, IP, legislated
requirements etc)
and then PRINT IT OUT! Then you will pick it up and use it. (or not -
what
you just printed may be a house or a car... or a Lung)

Sound like sci-fi - NO ITS NOT!!!!

google for how to print an Organ (the wet stuff, not the musical
instrument)

This is happening right now.
It will probably take 20yrs to 'start' affecting society, and 50yrs
to
really kick in.

Poor China!

This does not help us now tho does it?
What to do? well here are some thoughts

1) Isn't it ironic that the modern captains of Capitalism are the
closest
thing to Stalin we have at the moment!
2) Isn't it ironic that the Chinese Communist/Capitalists are
mortally
afraid of Trade Unions!
3) Isn't it ironic that the most aggresive buyers of shares are Union
Members (and very scared fatcats)
4) We need to stop the stampede towards certain Corporates
accumulating
software patents and IP patents in general. NOW!
5) Make sure that "Made In America" MEANS IT! That means manufactured
and
assembled in America.
6) Make sure that a fair percentage of your money GOES TO THE PERSON
WHO
MADE THE PRODUCT!

7) CUT OUT THE MIDDLEMAN! Like the artist formerly known as Prince,
sell/get
your wares directly to/from the consumer/producer!

cheers!

yes, but you are forgeting one crucial factor: people are F'in idiots.
the only people who will be able to tell the machine what they want and
get it to print the right thing are the people who designed it in the
first place. you will still need engineers who know how to translate
from dimwit to machine.

On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 00:33:19 GMT, "thanatos"
wrote:

Don't worry!

Buy American! - but make sure it is American!
Some posts in this thread have made the point that a lot of American scopes
are actually to some degree made in 'China'. There is a solution to this:

Insist that "Made in America" actually means that!

I for one have been outraged by the cynicism of Corporates that advertise
goods and wares as "Made in America" or "Made in Australia", and charge
accordingly.
When in actual fact the product was manufactured in 'China' and assembled in
America.
Then the Corporates charge $500 for it when it cost them $5 to make.
By using slave labor in 'China'.
And the quality of the goods reflects this. I have a Chinese flashlight
sitting on my shelves ready for repairs, Why - because it lasted only 12
months (just out of warranty). They really do have planned obsolescence down
to a fine art! It only cost $10 for a 1 Million Candela flashlight! but
thats not the point is it? I want to get more that 12 months use out of it
before I buy a new one!

Then don't be such a pathetic cheapskate and buy a flashlight made in
the U.S. They do exist.

Don't get me wrong - I have no problem with buying Chinese goods, as long as
they are branded as such, and are of good quality.

I also want Televue and Nagler and Questar and Astrophysics when (if ever I
can afford them)
Is there a part of a TeleVue scope or eyepiece that isn't
made in Taiwan?
-Rich

Then don't be such a pathetic cheapskate and buy a flashlight made in
the U.S. They do exist.
I have a large maglite - great as a baton as well as a light! and it cost a
bomb! and I love the workmanship, but it is not 1 MCandela...

you missed my point I think

Taiwan is quite different from mainland China. I find it's easier to do
business in Taiwan than with the U.S. government or most large
corporations. The same cannot be said for business dealings in the PRC.

The Taiwanese are an amazing people and it would be a tragedy to see
their creative genius and accomplishments crushed under the boot of
those Marxist gangsters from the mainland.



RichA wrote:

Is there a part of a TeleVue scope or eyepiece that isn't
made in Taiwan?
-Rich

On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 10:53:36 GMT, "thanatos"
wrote:


Then don't be such a pathetic cheapskate and buy a flashlight made in
the U.S. They do exist.
I have a large maglite - great as a baton as well as a light! and it cost a
bomb! and I love the workmanship, but it is not 1 MCandela...

you missed my point I think


I didn't miss your point. You paid $10 for a flashlight
and you expect it to last forever.
-Rich

I didn't miss your point. You paid $10 for a flashlight
and you expect it to last forever.
-Rich

I expect it to last longer than 12 months of VERY light duties!
for ANY amount of money.

The quality was crap, and now I will not buy any more such goods, at any
price!

The PRC have shown no interest in crushing capitalism in the area. Hong
Kong is doing just fine, and no harm is going to come to Taiwan (at
least not from China). The real danger is if powerful zealots on our
shores feel that there is any justification at all to actually (as
opposed to rhetorically) intervene militarily on Taiwan's "behalf".
Then it will be game-over for everyone.

Tim Killian wrote:
Taiwan is quite different from mainland China. I find it's easier to
do
business in Taiwan than with the U.S. government or most large
corporations. The same cannot be said for business dealings in the
PRC.

The Taiwanese are an amazing people and it would be a tragedy to see
their creative genius and accomplishments crushed under the boot of
those Marxist gangsters from the mainland.

"thanatos" wrote in message
...

I didn't miss your point. You paid $10 for a flashlight
and you expect it to last forever.
-Rich

I expect it to last longer than 12 months of VERY light duties!
for ANY amount of money.

The quality was crap, and now I will not buy any more such goods, at any
price!

I've come to expect the quality to match the price.

"thanatos" wrote in message
...

I didn't miss your point. You paid $10 for a flashlight
and you expect it to last forever.
-Rich

I expect it to last longer than 12 months of VERY light duties!
snip

A flashlight being used for light duties!!
Love it!!