Local Shops. ..

OK, I am a little upset at a couple of transactions with my local shop (name
will be withheld).

I purchased (backordered) a Celestron 5i special (with Goto & tripod) for
$989.00. I originally went to the local shop to order the Meade ETX-125
(with UHTC) but found that there was a 4 month back order. On a whim I
asked about the availability of the 5i and found that they had some coming
in soon and there was some in the order that were unsold.

I asked the clerk numerous times about the price and the contents as well as
the coatings. I wanted Starbright but the clerk kept telling me that the
"special" included the XLT coatings. I was pretty pysched, as long as it
was comparable to UHTC I was pretty happy.

I decided to snap up one of the 5i's and put some money down. She filled
out a receipt that showed the total price ($989) my amount down and the
amount due upon receipt. At one point she doublechecked with her manager to
make sure that I would not be charged for shipping and he told her no (and
also verifed the $989 price).

After putting it on order she showed me some prices for hard cases. She
showed me 3 cases ($119, $129, & $139). For some reason I thought the case
was $129. I decided to hold off until I knew when the 5i would come in (and
also so I could go online to see if there was a cheaper price).

I searched for the JMI case for the 5i and found that $129 - $139 plus
Shipping & Handling was the norm. Since there was not supposed to be any
shipping in the price I was quoted at the local store I decided to order it
through them.

I ordered it over the phone and she asked me the price, I told I thought it
was $129 and she said that she agreed and even said she found the listing of
the case in question at $129. Then she told me that she needed to get the
manager as the 5i's total price was "incorrect". I was a little upset but
wanted to hear what they had to say (maybe it was even lower...).

There was much fumbling and eventually she came back and told me that the 5i
is actually $1029, a difference of $40. I asked about the validity of my
receipt showing the quoted price and didn't get anywhere on that. I decided
that I really didn't want to get into any arguments over the phone (plus I
had other things to do), so I asked for the total for the case which came
out to $129 plus $7.50 Shipping & Handling. I was a little upset, but could
live with that (the addition of the S&H).

After we ended the call, I was mulling over the increased price when I got a
call back from the clerk. Apparently the case was actually $139 and the S&H
was actually $12.50. I asked if I should expect a call back in a few
minutes with another price hike. . .

OK, so here is the deal, both of these mistakes (when viewed separately) are
small, honest mistakes. The problem is that there seems to be a trend here
(if you can call two successive incidents a 'trend'). Legally, I know I can
get the 5i for the original quoted price as I have a bill of sale that
states so. I could care less about the case (price, that is).

Is it worth the $40 to pursue this?

I did a quick search online and found that most places sell the 5i special
for $999 plus S&H except for Amazon ($999 free shipping) and another in NY
for $949 + $47 S&H.

The local shop has to add some value as they a
1) Local
2) Able to answer my questions (except for the last clerk)
3) Conveinent

I refuse to name the company as this post is not intended to be a "Gripe
Thread".

Where do most people out here shop? Locally, Mail Order, or Internet?

Do you look for best price or best value?

To help the Local Shop's case, it is important to note that they have a 10
day conditional money back policy as well as a 30 day store credit policy.
In this day and age of Amazon.com, Best Buy, Home Depot, Walmart, etc we
have all come to expect an unconditional guarantee. I think the Local
Shop's policy is pretty fair as I have some history on this. I initially
purchased a pair of Meade 9 x 63mm Astronomy Binoculars but returned them 2
days later when I found out that it was next to impossible for my kids to
focus/find anything (even with my help). I then bought an Orion Starmax 127
setup but returned it a few days later because it was way too cumbersome,
the equatorial mount was almost impossible for me to calibrate at my site(s)
(Polaris blocked by trees/house) and there was a stripped tube mount bolt.

If I had chosen to buy the binocs online, I would have gotten a much better
selection and price, but would have still been waiting for the return
process. I would have had a better selection of 'scopes (I really chose an
Orion as a compromise, the Mars epidemic has wiped out stocks everywhere)
and most likely would have gotten the ETX or the 5i anyway. . .

OK, so we have established that I can write and write. . .

Thanks for reading this far (if you have, in fact, done so).

-=SkyHawke=-

Tim Povlick wrote:

SkyHawke wrote:

I decided to snap up one of the 5i's and put some money down. She filled
out a receipt that showed the total price ($989) my amount down and the
amount due upon receipt. At one point she doublechecked with her
manager to
make sure that I would not be charged for shipping and he told her no
(and
also verifed the $989 price).



With a receipt showing the price and amount due the shop doesn't have a
leg to stand on. I'd tell them to honor the price or you'll cancel and
talk about the incident out there giving their name. Who is the company
anyway?

Actually, with a receipt showing the price and amount due, all you have
to do is demand the product. Go to small claims court if they don't hand
it over. Unless you feel favorably inclined towards them.

I completely understand my legal position on this one, I am just trying to
figure out if it is worth the hassle.

Even though I can save some $$ by ordering online, I would potentially lose
any help I could get from the people over at the store.

Another choice is to go with the 8i (without the XLT coatings). It looks
like I can get an 8i with the Goto & tripod for $1199 from Amazon which is
really not that much more. Amazon apparently drop ships from Celestron
directly so I wouldn't be getting a scope that has sat on a shelf for a
while (I hope). Really not sure if the 8i will be practical (size-wise) but
that is getting off-topic. . .

I am not going to mention the shop, it is not my intention to vent against
them.

I am really interested in how people shop out here, do you buy the big stuff
online and small stuff locally?

Do you buy all online or all locally?

Thanks for the quick replies. . .

-=SkyHawke=-





"lal_truckee" wrote in message
...
Tim Povlick wrote:

SkyHawke wrote:

I decided to snap up one of the 5i's and put some money down. She
filled
out a receipt that showed the total price ($989) my amount down and the
amount due upon receipt. At one point she doublechecked with her
manager to
make sure that I would not be charged for shipping and he told her no
(and
also verifed the $989 price).



With a receipt showing the price and amount due the shop doesn't have a
leg to stand on. I'd tell them to honor the price or you'll cancel and
talk about the incident out there giving their name. Who is the company
anyway?

Actually, with a receipt showing the price and amount due, all you have
to do is demand the product. Go to small claims court if they don't hand
it over. Unless you feel favorably inclined towards them.

An 8i has 2.5x the light gathering of a NexStar 5. The Starbright coatings
are already very good, so the advantage of the XLT coatings are completely
dwarfed by the difference in aperture between the 5i and the 8i. I would
definitely go with the 8i.

"SkyHawke" wrote in message
.net...
I completely understand my legal position on this one, I am just trying to
figure out if it is worth the hassle.

Even though I can save some $$ by ordering online, I would potentially
lose
any help I could get from the people over at the store.

Another choice is to go with the 8i (without the XLT coatings). It looks
like I can get an 8i with the Goto & tripod for $1199 from Amazon which is
really not that much more. Amazon apparently drop ships from Celestron
directly so I wouldn't be getting a scope that has sat on a shelf for a
while (I hope). Really not sure if the 8i will be practical (size-wise)
but
that is getting off-topic. . .

I am not going to mention the shop, it is not my intention to vent against
them.

I am really interested in how people shop out here, do you buy the big
stuff
online and small stuff locally?

Do you buy all online or all locally?

Thanks for the quick replies. . .

-=SkyHawke=-





"lal_truckee" wrote in message
...
Tim Povlick wrote:

SkyHawke wrote:

I decided to snap up one of the 5i's and put some money down. She
filled
out a receipt that showed the total price ($989) my amount down and
the
amount due upon receipt. At one point she doublechecked with her
manager to
make sure that I would not be charged for shipping and he told her no
(and
also verifed the $989 price).



With a receipt showing the price and amount due the shop doesn't have
a
leg to stand on. I'd tell them to honor the price or you'll cancel
and
talk about the incident out there giving their name. Who is the
company
anyway?

Actually, with a receipt showing the price and amount due, all you have
to do is demand the product. Go to small claims court if they don't hand
it over. Unless you feel favorably inclined towards them.

Hi S-Hawke, I have read your post, and this is sort of a tough call
what to do.

It seems you mention your past buying history has not been too favorable
with this local store. This may not have been thier fault though?

I would assume most good Astro-Camera Shops do know thier prices.
(Especially after the Manager confirmed the said price) But.......

Downside of mail order I've found a couple of times, is not the
quality-integrity of the business/dealer, but the fate, and luck of the
draw, hoping the shipping company doesn't monkey up your shipment. (UPS
comes to mind quickly)

With buying local, at least you can thoroughly inspect your purchase
before leaving the store. I myself have grown to hate making high
dollar purchases sight unseen. (I guess the 'ole bird in the hand theory
comes to mind here)

In the Dealer's defense, it may be very possible that they misquoted the
price because of the new XLT Coatings on the scope. These have just
come out I understand, so the dealer may not have been aware of the new
price for this option. To me, it sounds like this option is worth
having.

As for the shipping prices for the Case, this may have been beyond the
dealer's control also. Fuel costs have gone through the ceiling!

I suggest sleeping on the decision, you'll ultimately know what to do.
All in all, it seems like these people have been nice.
I cannot detect any problems of this sort from your letter.

It may be possible that this dealer may somehow make things up to you in
some other way?

This I think may be a strong possibility that they'll compensate you
somehow. Hope all works out well for you, good luck, Mark

Thanks Chuck,

I created a new thread "Nexstar 5i vs 8i" since this is a little off topic.
.. .

That is really good to hear about the difference between the XLT and the
Starbright (being rather miniscule).

-=SkyHawke=-

"Chuck Scappaticci" wrote in message
et...
An 8i has 2.5x the light gathering of a NexStar 5. The Starbright
coatings
are already very good, so the advantage of the XLT coatings are completely
dwarfed by the difference in aperture between the 5i and the 8i. I would
definitely go with the 8i.

"SkyHawke" wrote in message
.net...
I completely understand my legal position on this one, I am just trying
to
figure out if it is worth the hassle.

Even though I can save some $$ by ordering online, I would potentially
lose
any help I could get from the people over at the store.

Another choice is to go with the 8i (without the XLT coatings). It
looks
like I can get an 8i with the Goto & tripod for $1199 from Amazon which
is
really not that much more. Amazon apparently drop ships from Celestron
directly so I wouldn't be getting a scope that has sat on a shelf for a
while (I hope). Really not sure if the 8i will be practical (size-wise)
but
that is getting off-topic. . .

I am not going to mention the shop, it is not my intention to vent
against
them.

I am really interested in how people shop out here, do you buy the big
stuff
online and small stuff locally?

Do you buy all online or all locally?

Thanks for the quick replies. . .

-=SkyHawke=-





"lal_truckee" wrote in message
...
Tim Povlick wrote:

SkyHawke wrote:

I decided to snap up one of the 5i's and put some money down. She
filled
out a receipt that showed the total price ($989) my amount down and
the
amount due upon receipt. At one point she doublechecked with her
manager to
make sure that I would not be charged for shipping and he told her
no
(and
also verifed the $989 price).



With a receipt showing the price and amount due the shop doesn't
have
a
leg to stand on. I'd tell them to honor the price or you'll cancel
and
talk about the incident out there giving their name. Who is the
company
anyway?

Actually, with a receipt showing the price and amount due, all you
have
to do is demand the product. Go to small claims court if they don't
hand
it over. Unless you feel favorably inclined towards them.

I add a couple of thoughts here.

First, you have already purchased and returned two significant items to this
dealer. They have given you some good service and a few dollars is worth
paying for some good service. You have cost them some money.

Second: If that Starmax 127 EQ was "way too cumbersome", I think a Nextstar 8i
will significantly more awkward and cumbersome.

My suggestion is to find your local astronomy club and get some first hand
experience with the various scopes, look through an 8 inch scope and a 5 inch
scope and a 15 inch scope. Look at them and see how cumbersome they really
are.

Then you can make an informed decision as to what will work for you.

None of us can make this decision for you and while there is a vast amount of
experience here in this group, sharing that experience is a difficult task.

But in my experience, the best thing to do is not listen to what others say or
to what the catalogs say, rather, get some first hand, live, in person, upfront
eyepiece time.

And yes, an 8 inch Scope shows a lot more than a 5 incher, but then a 12.5
incher shows more than a 8 incher, but then the focal length of the 8 incher is
60% longer than the 5 incher so FOVs are smaller but then a focal
reducer.......

Too many variables....

Get out there and get some eyepiece time.

jon isaacs

SkyHawke wrote in article
ZIu5b.262245$Oz4.69250@rwcrnsc54...
OK, I am a little upset at a couple of transactions with my local shop (name
will be withheld).

snip

OK, so we have established that I can write and write. . .

Thanks for reading this far (if you have, in fact, done so).

-=SkyHawke=-

Personally, $40 (then $15) is not the end of the world (to others it
could be the difference between eating or not – but then they
shouldn't be spending $1000 on a scope!).
What I think you really need to do to satisfy yourself is to establish
exactly why there has been a change in the price (twice!)
OK it could have been incorrect pricing, a genuine mistake or some
such or it could be a genuine attempt to rip people off.
If it were me and I thought it was a genuine mistake I would explain
the legal situation to the owner/manager (not anyone else) then take
it from there – you might find he gets all stroppy in which case I
would dig my heels in or he might be understanding in which case I
would meet them ½ way on the understanding that if it happened again
you would consider taking further action (but said in a way not to pee
them off).
If it seems like a rip off tactic I would not hesitate to contact the
authorities (Trading Standards Office in the UK) and push it all the
way!
Another thing that strikes me as curious, if it is a local shop I
would go and pick the goods up for 2 reasons:
1) you can check everything before leaving (if they are any good they
will be happy to arrange an out of hours pick up if you can't make it
during their normal hours – I would for a grand's worth of kit)
2) they have no excuse to charge S&H at either $7.50 or $12.50

HTH best of luck and please do feed back
--
Simon
51:31N 0:38W
http://www.cookie-pool.co.uk/Pool1.htm
http://www.maidenhead.astronomical.s...care4free.net/
http://www.popastro.com/home.htm

SkyHawke wrote:

I am not going to mention the shop, it is not my intention to vent against
them.

I am really interested in how people shop out here, do you buy the big stuff
online and small stuff locally?

Do you buy all online or all locally?

I would prefer to buy locally; until Lumicon closed its storefront which
was just blocks from where I work, and I bought from them pretty much
exclusively. Now that they are gone only the SF Scope City is "local" -
it's a pain in the ass to get to (being located in the most tourist
crowded section of a tourist crowded city, and a fair drive to boot) and
the next nearest is Orion in San Jose, an even longer drive, so I buy
online against my inclinations.

[BTW, if any of you entrepeneurs out there want to open a SF Bay Area
astro store (or in any area near I-80 from SF to Reno) you've got at
least one customer.]

"SkyHawke" wrote in message news:ZIu5b.262245$Oz4.69250@rwcrnsc54...
OK, I am a little upset at a couple of transactions with my local shop (name
will be withheld).

snip

Where do most people out here shop? Locally, Mail Order, or Internet?

Do you look for best price or best value?


I have learned alot on this newsgroup, including how fortunate I am
that my local shop is Oceanside Photo and Telescope. They have a
great web site, and I have been in a couple of times in person and
found everyone friendly and helpful (especially the solar-astronomer
who let me and any other passers-by look through his Coronado...).
What I most appreciated was when I sheepishly went in to buy a better
..96" eyepiece for my "scope" (a 60 mm gift scope). Far from being
condescending (which I actually expected), the people there were
encouraging. Mike (I believe it was Mike) said something to the
effect of "hey great, it has got you started." A certain chain store
is closer to me (10 min as opposed to 35 min), but OPT is always my
first choice.

snip again

Thanks for reading this far (if you have, in fact, done so).

-=SkyHawke=-

I agree with Simon -- since you have purchased from them before, I
would go in person to see what the issue was. Good luck with your
scope (my father-in-law bought the 8i from OPT -- his only regret is
not getting the optional GPS...).

Erik
socalsw