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50-page brochure (Russian and English) about Progress M50



 
 
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  #21  
Old August 15th 04, 04:23 AM
Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)
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"Joseph Nebus" wrote in message
...
Andrew Gray writes:

Unfortunately I don't find a reference offhand ... but it is one
of the greater space pranks played.


One of the greatest that never quite worked was Apollo 12 where they brought
a timer for the camera.

Idea was to put it on the camera, set it up on Surveyor and both stand in
front of the camera while it snapped a picture.

In retrospect, with so many moon-hoaxers around, it's probably a good thing
they didn't do this.


--
Joseph Nebus
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

----



  #22  
Old August 15th 04, 04:23 AM
Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)
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Posts: n/a
Default


"Joseph Nebus" wrote in message
...
Andrew Gray writes:

Unfortunately I don't find a reference offhand ... but it is one
of the greater space pranks played.


One of the greatest that never quite worked was Apollo 12 where they brought
a timer for the camera.

Idea was to put it on the camera, set it up on Surveyor and both stand in
front of the camera while it snapped a picture.

In retrospect, with so many moon-hoaxers around, it's probably a good thing
they didn't do this.


--
Joseph Nebus
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

----



  #23  
Old August 15th 04, 04:24 AM
Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)
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"bob haller" wrote in message
...

However bob is more interested in the appearance (replacing badly
needed supplies with luxury items) than the reality ('luxury' items
that help keep the crew sane).



Ahh if some minor component fails I will restart this discussion. morale

is
definetely important but currently the station is in emergency mode

without
shuttle supplies


Great. So, please come up with the exact right 5kg or so of "right
components" they'll need.

It's a big station. Make sure you pick the right ones, since I'd hate to
see what would happen if you spent 5 kg of mass for one set of items only to
find out the failed component wasn't among that list.


HAVE A GREAT DAY!



  #24  
Old August 15th 04, 04:24 AM
Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"bob haller" wrote in message
...

However bob is more interested in the appearance (replacing badly
needed supplies with luxury items) than the reality ('luxury' items
that help keep the crew sane).



Ahh if some minor component fails I will restart this discussion. morale

is
definetely important but currently the station is in emergency mode

without
shuttle supplies


Great. So, please come up with the exact right 5kg or so of "right
components" they'll need.

It's a big station. Make sure you pick the right ones, since I'd hate to
see what would happen if you spent 5 kg of mass for one set of items only to
find out the failed component wasn't among that list.


HAVE A GREAT DAY!



  #25  
Old August 15th 04, 04:24 AM
Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"bob haller" wrote in message
...

However bob is more interested in the appearance (replacing badly
needed supplies with luxury items) than the reality ('luxury' items
that help keep the crew sane).



Ahh if some minor component fails I will restart this discussion. morale

is
definetely important but currently the station is in emergency mode

without
shuttle supplies


Great. So, please come up with the exact right 5kg or so of "right
components" they'll need.

It's a big station. Make sure you pick the right ones, since I'd hate to
see what would happen if you spent 5 kg of mass for one set of items only to
find out the failed component wasn't among that list.


HAVE A GREAT DAY!



  #27  
Old August 15th 04, 04:33 PM
David Anderman
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The Soyuz U2 vehicle (the one that used Sintin) did have slightly higher
performance than the standard Soyuz-U, but this performance gap was erased
with the introduction of the Soyuz-FG, which uses higher performance engines
in the first and second stages. The next version of Soyuz will use a better
third stage engine, and replace the analog flight computer with a digital
system, and so will have significantly better performance.


"Christopher M. Jones" wrote in message
...
hop wrote:
Incidently, the Soyouz 2B gives an extra 1000kg to LEO from Baikonur,
which should be plenty for extra heat sheild that the seemingly
implausible CSI http://www.constellationservices.com/ plan would
require. Hmmm...


I was under the impression that the Soyuz had lower
performance now than it used to, as the Soviets used
to use Sintin rather than stock Kerosene. The
Russians ran out of money to keep Sintin production
running sometime in the mid '90s.



  #28  
Old August 15th 04, 04:35 PM
David Anderman
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Note that the mass for the reworked Soyuz heat shield is no more than 300
kg. Updated details about the Lunar Express SM system are available at:

www.constellationservices.com

but if you can read Russian, there is a very interesting story at:

http://www.kp.ru/daily/23335/31058/

BTW, I would be happy to answer questions about this near term lunar
mission, right here.

DWA


"hop" wrote in message
om...
"Jim Oberg" wrote in message

...
FYI:


A very handsome 50-page brochure (Russian and English) about Progress

M50
and background
can be downloaded in pdf form from
http://www.federalspace.ru/video/Progress_M50_www.pdf

Specific mission details (in Russian) can be read at
http://www.federalspace.ru/Start1Show.asp?STARTID=574

JimO
www.jamesoberg.com

Nice find.

Far more interesting than the fact the ISS crew get magazines and DVDs
to me was the Soyuz LV upgrade timeline. While the aurora/onega stuff
seems likely to be viewgraph engineering, the Soyuz 2A and 2B and
perhaps the Kourou pad seem to be fairly firm. Anyone know if this is
true, or just more 'if we had the money' dreaming ?

Incidently, the Soyouz 2B gives an extra 1000kg to LEO from Baikonur,
which should be plenty for extra heat sheild that the seemingly
implausible CSI http://www.constellationservices.com/ plan would
require. Hmmm...

It is also interesting to see the same LV gets about 2.5x the payload
to geostationary from Kourou compaired Baikonur. That should provide
an attractive option for medium sized GEO sats.



  #29  
Old August 16th 04, 03:13 AM
hop
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"David Anderman" wrote in message m...
Note that the mass for the reworked Soyuz heat shield is no more than 300
kg. Updated details about the Lunar Express SM system are available at:

www.constellationservices.com

but if you can read Russian, there is a very interesting story at:

http://www.kp.ru/daily/23335/31058/

BTW, I would be happy to answer questions about this near term lunar
mission, right here.

DWA

Nice to see you here. There was some discussion of the concept earlier
on this NG (see this long url for google archive
http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&threadm=64c0d119.0408060844.261c9825%40 posting.google.com&prev=/groups%3Fdq%3D%26num%3D25%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3 DUTF-8%26group%3Dsci.space.station%26safe%3Doff%26start %3D25
)

My personal take is it is a very interesting, but it would be hard to
get anyone to pay for it. The US Govt. won't, because of the Iran
non-proliferation act, and the fact that 'buy cheap Russian hardware'
is not likely an acceptable component of the moon plan (for both good
and bad reasons). If transportation of humans and cargo to lunar orbit
were open for anyone to bid on, it could be a different story.

ESA might, conceivably, but it is hard to see how they would justify
it. ESA ISS flights are promoted as providing manned spaceflight
experience (since they fly as FEs) as well as micro-g science. Neither
of those would seem to gain additional benefit from going around the
moon. National prestige alone seems questionable, especially if they
are just paying for a ride that anyone with enough cash can take.

Tourists are possible, but the cost would seem put severe limits on
the market. At the current $10-20 million rumored price, the Russians
still have some trouble getting applicants who have funding and can
meet the medical and training requirements.

Even if the boost stage (+ECLS and hab area) could be made largely by
gluing together existing hardware, it is still a new manned
spacecraft. And even though the Soyuz upgrade should be reasonably
simple, it would require some development and re-qualification. Zond
was a long time ago, on a different LV, and a variant of Soyuz quite
different from the TMA. All this makes me think that the development
cost would be non-trivial.

In any case, I wish you the best of luck and would be glad to be
proven wrong.
  #30  
Old August 16th 04, 06:44 PM
EAC
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(hop) wrote in message . com...
My personal take is it is a very interesting,
but it would be hard to get anyone to pay for it.


Well... Under the reasons that were taught to us at school, but real
life use a totally different use.

We have seen many things that were financed eventhough there seems to
be no return of investment with profit and the same time we also
things that are never financed eventhough there's a guarrante of
profit.

So... I think that financial issue isn't the issue, but more of a
propaganda issue.

I think that it probable that it will be financed under the same
reason SpaceShip One was financed, to defame the government.

The US Govt. won't, because of the Iran non-proliferation act,


Interestingly, while the U.S.A. government can't buy any Russian
hardware, private U.S. companies can.

So obviously the true reason isn't because of the whole Iran thing,
but instead to tied the hand of the U.S.A. government and to ruin the
relationship between the U.S.A. governmemt and the Russian government.

and the fact that 'buy cheap Russian hardware'
is not likely an acceptable component of the moon plan
(for both good and bad reasons).


Well... Buying cheap Russian hardware will allow good cooperation and
better relationship with the Russian government, even if the hardware
were never use.

Or is cooperation and a good relationship is a bad thing to do?

Remember if Kennedy and Kruschev had their ways, both the U.S.A. and
the U.S.S.R. would have done a joint mission together to the moon. But
then again, Kennedy was assasinated and Kruschev was removed from
power one year after Kennedy was assasinated.


If transportation of humans and cargo to lunar orbit
were open for anyone to bid on, it could be a different story.


Betcha it will be financed the same way SpaceShip One was financed.

Though doing sub-orbital flight is one thing, doing a lunar orbital
flight is another.

Are you sure that they already done all the bureaucracies work needed
to get a green light from Lunar immigration departement?


National prestige alone seems questionable, especially if they [ESA]
are just paying for a ride that anyone with enough cash can take.


National prestige is important, even if they are just paying the ride.
And even the ability to pay the fare is already a prestige on its own.

After all, many people took the Concorde not just because they want to
get to their destination faster, they want to be part of the
SuperSonic Club. Even the ability on paying the fare is already a
prestige on its own.

But unfortunately, there's a group of people bent on destroying
national prestige. Of course, to destroy something, something need to
exist in the first place. So this same people must make sure that
'they' have something to destroy, and if there isn't one, 'they' must
build it first so that it can be destroyed later. It's balance thing.

Concorde regular flights is an example of a national prestige being
built and then destroyed.
 




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