Accident at Cape

William Mook wrote:

On Saturday, September 3, 2016 at 2:18:41 AM UTC+12, JF Mezei wrote:
If Range Safety is triggered, wouldn't explosives throughout the rocket
fire at the same time ?

We saw progression of fire from the top moving down. So while one pyro
may have exploded, it wouldn't appear to have been triggered by range
safety.

A full end to end system test resulting in ALL explosives going off would look different than the video. However, if only one charge were mis-wired somehow, and and that was the linear charge in the second stage lox tank, the video is consistent with exactly that happening. Since an FTS system test was being conducted at that moment, the video and the timing of the explosion are both suggestive and point to a failure in the FTS charge on the second stage as the cause.


Or maybe it was magic pixies. Do you know ANYTHING about FTS systems?


If the FTS is confirmed as the cause, there are lots of issues that flow out of it;

(1) is FTS appropriate on a reusable rocket?

Yes, unless that rocket is carrying a pilot who is in positive control
of the vehicle.

(2) what are the risk of FTS misfiring vs risks it supposedly abates in a 21st century rocket?

Microscopic.

(3) was the accident in any way instigated by competitors who cannot compete?
(this does not shift responsibility away from SpaceX or their contractors - they should have
detected any exceptional condition that led to the FTS failure if indeed that was the case
i.e. any miswiring, or mis-signalling should have been detected before the test and corrected)

Paranoid MookLunacy.


These questions deserve to be asked should FTS failure be confirmed through further study.


And what if pixie intervention is confirmed?


--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn

William Mook wrote:

On Saturday, September 3, 2016 at 3:07:49 AM UTC+12, William Mook wrote:

Mook on Mook, using Usenet NEWS exactly the wrong way.

snip


#3 above can be looked at this way; A bank gets robbed and a million dollars is stolen. The bank manager and guard gets fired. Why?


Because they don't get fired. Bad premise. Analogy fails.

snip MookLunacy


--
"Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is
only stupid."
-- Heinrich Heine

Mook on Mook again, and again doing things totally wrong on Usenet
NEWS.

William Mook wrote:

On Saturday, September 3, 2016 at 2:54:34 AM UTC+12, William Mook wrote:

snip


LAWS or ADAM at the launch centre and the recovery centre could be an acceptable alternative to pyrotechnics on board the rocket that prove to be a safer alternative.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0DbgNju2wE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dL9_Tldmrhs


No such weapon exists that can, with 100% certainty, terminate all
thrust from a large rocket booster.


--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn

Frame rate at YouTube ranges from 30 to 60 fps. So that's 16.7 to 33.3 milliseconds p
er frame. LOX needs a fuel to burn. LOX is not explosive. Fuel and oxidiser needs to combine rapidly to explode. Hydrogen gas and oxygen gas can explode when mixed. Increasing oxygen concentration can cause fires that are violent such as grease handprint on an aluminium or fibreglass surface exposed to lox but cannot explode.

The fireball its colour and size within 16.7 milliseconds exceeds that of a flame front. The speed the colour the size of the debris are all consistent with a pyrotechnic. The location on the vehicle and the activity happening at the moment of detonation suggests strongly the FTS.

http://www.barnesville.com/archives/...-on-video.html

Bank managers get fired following robberies all the time. Perhaps if you got off your ass and saw sunlight time to time you wouldn't post crazy **** and rant about it.

So Fred's saying the navy and Lockheed are doing cgi. Nothing is 100% ever. So you're saying crazy **** again and ranting cluelessly.

William Mook wrote:

http://www.barnesville.com/archives/...-on-video.html


Bank managers get fired following robberies all the time. Perhaps if you got off your ass and saw sunlight time to time you wouldn't post crazy **** and rant about it.


The article itself is behind a paywall, but reading the comments it is
quickly obvious that this particular manager whipped out a gun and
started shooting, endangering pretty much everyone in the bank. THAT
is why he was fired, you ignorant ****. Perhaps if you learned to
read polysyllabic English you wouldn't take such moronic positions.

You've made a claim. Presumably you can point to all sorts of news
stories where bank managers were fired after a robbery JUST BECAUSE
THEY WERE BANK MANAGERS and without egregiously insane behavior like
spraying bullets around.


--
"Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is
only stupid."
-- Heinrich Heine

William Mook wrote:


So Fred's saying the navy and Lockheed are doing cgi.


I said no such thing, you delusional lying sack of ****.


Nothing is 100% ever.


Not what I said (which is presumably why you snipped all the context).
Go read it again.


So you're saying crazy **** again and ranting cluelessly.


No, Mookie. *YOU* are saying crazy **** again then ranting about my
having said it when that never happened. You're delusional.


--
"Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is
only stupid."
-- Heinrich Heine

In article . com,
says...

On 2016-09-02 10:43, Jeff Findley wrote:

Considering there was a lot of venting near where the fire started, I'd
think it could very well be a problem with the sub-cooled LOX filling
and/or venting. Possibly a static discharge or malfunctioning piece of
equipment igniting whatever is combustible in an oxygen rich
environment.


I got to load one video and frame by frame it. It goes from perfectly
normal to great big ball of fire in one frame. Not sure if a youtube
quality video can have enough frames/second to show onset of fire over
more than 1 frame.

Perhaps that one video may have been taken from an angle where ignition
is not seen and by the time we see something, it is already a big explosion.



Pretty amazing that the payload remained up there "well after" the great
big ball of fire and fell well after the rocket under it was all gone.
(The only way, as was suggested here is that the tower held it for some
time).

If this were a commercial crew flight, the launch escape system on
Dragon V2 would have saved the crew.

Assuming O2 was venting to air and there was a spark. What exactly would
the O2 burn ? It isn't as if there was something spraying kerosene in a
fine mist.

Could have been pretty much anything flammable soaked in LOX (or O2 rich
liquefied air) that caught fire. LOX will turn asphalt into a contact
explosive!

Once kerosene leaks frm ruptured tank, I understand the fire free for
all. But would it be fair to state that initial explosion would not have
involved kerosene?

Technically, I think it was a fireball (rapid burning of kerosene), not
an explosion. And explosion would require pre-mixing of the LOX and
kerosene, which clearly didn't happen here.

Jeff
--
All opinions posted by me on Usenet News are mine, and mine alone.
These posts do not reflect the opinions of my family, friends,
employer, or any organization that I am a member of.

On Saturday, September 3, 2016 at 12:25:47 PM UTC+12, Fred J. McCall wrote:
William Mook wrote:

http://www.barnesville.com/archives/...-on-video.html


Bank managers get fired following robberies all the time. Perhaps if you got off your ass and saw sunlight time to time you wouldn't post crazy **** and rant about it.


The article itself is behind a paywall, but reading the comments it is
quickly obvious that this particular manager whipped out a gun and
started shooting, endangering pretty much everyone in the bank. THAT
is why he was fired, you ignorant ****. Perhaps if you learned to
read polysyllabic English you wouldn't take such moronic positions.

You've made a claim. Presumably you can point to all sorts of news
stories where bank managers were fired after a robbery JUST BECAUSE
THEY WERE BANK MANAGERS and without egregiously insane behavior like
spraying bullets around.


--
"Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is
only stupid."
-- Heinrich Heine

How can anyone talk with a liar like you that makes **** up after lamely saying they didn't read the article?