Dragon as a emergency return from orbit vehicle?

On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 12:16:25 -0800 (PST), bob haller
wrote:

today a ISS debris hit could take out the soyuz and we could all watch
the crew die and station be out left to tumble out of control

I can see one or the other, but what kind of debris hit would take out
both the Soyuz and the Station in such a way that the crew isn't
killed instantly? Detailed response, please.

Brian

dragon deliverys freight then hangs out attached to ISS for
emergencies

And do what in the event that there is one? *You can't carry people in
the Cargo Dragon.


it could be used in a pure emergency for people, with space suited
astronauts, oxygen bottles, and a immediate detach and deorbit. might
be a nasty ride, but preferably to watching them die.

did it ever occur to you a debris hit on the station could likely
damage the attached soyuz.?

debris hit exhaust most air leaving soyuz crippled.

a cargo dragon at station would be better than just writing off crew

In article 04587d93-05c3-4423-a588-acd6a0c7fae8
@z17g2000vbe.googlegroups.com, says...

today if soyuz cant launch its decrew ISS and run the risk of a out of
control station coming down on someones head....

at least with a admitted hack the station and crew would have a chance
for safety.

Dragon isn't ready for a crew.

today a ISS debris hit could take out the soyuz and we could all watch
the crew die and station be out left to tumble out of control

The chance of this happening has got to be far lower than the risk of
the crew dying on an unproven capsule.

Your ideas about "safety" aren't grounded in engineering. You can't
engineer safety into a system by using "your gut". Please leave "your
gut" to figure out what you want to eat.

Jeff
--
" Ares 1 is a prime example of the fact that NASA just can't get it
up anymore... and when they can, it doesn't stay up long. "
- tinker

In article , bthorn64
@suddenlink.net says...

On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 12:16:25 -0800 (PST), bob haller
wrote:

today a ISS debris hit could take out the soyuz and we could all watch
the crew die and station be out left to tumble out of control

I can see one or the other, but what kind of debris hit would take out
both the Soyuz and the Station in such a way that the crew isn't
killed instantly? Detailed response, please.

Bob can always come up with any scenario you want. Too bad his
scenarios are all based on "his gut" rather than sound engineering.

Jeff
--
" Ares 1 is a prime example of the fact that NASA just can't get it
up anymore... and when they can, it doesn't stay up long. "
- tinker

In article 1daa45d6-7b7d-4bc4-8491-5ab7a9e54243
@z17g2000vbe.googlegroups.com, says...

dragon deliverys freight then hangs out attached to ISS for
emergencies

And do what in the event that there is one? *You can't carry people in
the Cargo Dragon.


it could be used in a pure emergency for people, with space suited
astronauts, oxygen bottles, and a immediate detach and deorbit. might
be a nasty ride, but preferably to watching them die.

This is "real life" not a sci-fi thriller. Dragon hasn't even proven it
can berth with ISS. You'd be far better off using Progress, ATV, HTV,
or Dragon (cargo) to send up extra supplies to a damaged ISS and have
the crew wait for a proper rescue. ISS has more than one module which
can provide "life support".

Your scenario where the crew has to evacuate ISS *and* Soyuz is rendered
useless is pure fantasy. Anything that bad would kill the crew too.

did it ever occur to you a debris hit on the station could likely
damage the attached soyuz.?

But damage Soyuz, plus Russian life support, US life support, yet
somehow leave the crew alive? Your "scenario" is so unlikely that
"planning" for such a contingency is a waste of time and money.

debris hit exhaust most air leaving soyuz crippled.

How? There are *hatches* between the ISS modules. You'd have to put
holes in nearly every ISS module and all docked Soyuz capsules before
your scenario would exist. In such a scenario, how would Dragon remain
unscathed, yet Soyuz is somehow rendered useless?

a cargo dragon at station would be better than just writing off crew

Your scenario is pure sci-fi thriller material. You should write (bad)
scripts for Hollywood.

Jeff
--
" Ares 1 is a prime example of the fact that NASA just can't get it
up anymore... and when they can, it doesn't stay up long. "
- tinker

In sci.space.policy message
om, Fri, 9 Dec 2011 22:54:00, Jorge R. Frank
posted:

Cargo Dragon is unsuitable for crew emergency return because the active
side of the berthing mechanism is on the station side, and because it
requires a human operating the SSRMS to unberth and release it.

That depends on the emergency. If it's a matter of illness or injury to
one or two crew, then it would be perfectly possible for other crew
members to release their Dragon.

And if the medical problem has already proved fatal, there might be no
need for a man-rated vehicle.

--
(c) John Stockton, nr London, UK. Turnpike v6.05 MIME.
Web http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/ - FAQqish topics, acronyms and links;
Astro stuff via astron-1.htm, gravity0.htm ; quotings.htm, pascal.htm, etc.
No Encoding. Quotes before replies. Snip well. Write clearly. Don't Mail News.

In article 73fc0ec0-d77d-49dd-8816-b546114882e3
@d17g2000yql.googlegroups.com, says...

Lets imagine soyuz having another problem where replacement birds cant
launch.

Could they send up a dragon and use it as a pure emergency return
vehicle?

No, for the reasons we've already discussed.

Jeff
--
" Ares 1 is a prime example of the fact that NASA just can't get it
up anymore... and when they can, it doesn't stay up long. "
- tinker

On Dec 16, 10:59*am, Jeff Findley wrote:
In article 73fc0ec0-d77d-49dd-8816-b546114882e3
@d17g2000yql.googlegroups.com, says...



Lets imagine soyuz having another problem where replacement birds cant
launch.

Could they send up a dragon and use it as a pure emergency return
vehicle?

No, for the reasons we've already discussed.

Jeff
--
" Ares 1 is a prime example of the fact that NASA just can't get it
* up anymore... and when they can, it doesn't stay up long. "
* *- tinker

in a pure emergency where its crew dies or try dragon, dragon would
suddenly be embraced as a option.

as such minimal support for such a situation should be developed.

like having some inflatable crew couches onboard ISS

In article fbdcdd15-62d1-4a29-aaad-d62873f8fb98
@i6g2000vbe.googlegroups.com, says...

On Dec 16, 10:59*am, Jeff Findley wrote:
In article 73fc0ec0-d77d-49dd-8816-b546114882e3
@d17g2000yql.googlegroups.com, says...



Lets imagine soyuz having another problem where replacement birds cant
launch.

Could they send up a dragon and use it as a pure emergency return
vehicle?

No, for the reasons we've already discussed.

in a pure emergency where its crew dies or try dragon, dragon would
suddenly be embraced as a option.

as such minimal support for such a situation should be developed.

like having some inflatable crew couches onboard ISS

I'm killfiling this thread. There is no point in continuing this
useless conversation.

Jeff
--
" Ares 1 is a prime example of the fact that NASA just can't get it
up anymore... and when they can, it doesn't stay up long. "
- tinker

On Dec 16, 11:20*am, Jeff Findley wrote:
In article fbdcdd15-62d1-4a29-aaad-d62873f8fb98
@i6g2000vbe.googlegroups.com, says...







On Dec 16, 10:59*am, Jeff Findley wrote:
In article 73fc0ec0-d77d-49dd-8816-b546114882e3
@d17g2000yql.googlegroups.com, says...

Lets imagine soyuz having another problem where replacement birds cant
launch.

Could they send up a dragon and use it as a pure emergency return
vehicle?

No, for the reasons we've already discussed.

in a pure emergency where its crew dies or try dragon, dragon would
suddenly be embraced as a option.

as such minimal support for such a situation should be developed.

like having some inflatable crew couches onboard ISS

I'm killfiling this thread. *There is no point in continuing this
useless conversation.

Jeff
--
" Ares 1 is a prime example of the fact that NASA just can't get it
* up anymore... and when they can, it doesn't stay up long. "
* *- tinker- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

posters said much the same of a shuttle stuck at station

when all human transport depends on soyuz, backup plans should exist,
espical;ly since dragon although not human rated is the ONLY other
return system with a heatshield.......