Martian Spheres are Sponge Gemmules!

"jonathan" wrote in message
...

The outcrop at the Opportunity site is covered by a decomposing
or partially fossilized sponge and its gemmules, possibly of the species
spongilla. The images make this clear imo. But I'm a mathematician
not a biologist and I need some professional feedback.

I would recommend the following professional sources:

http://www.lenscrafters.com/

http://therapist.psychologytoday.com...of_search.php3

"jonathan" wrote in message
...



The outcrop at the Opportunity site is covered by a decomposing
or partially fossilized sponge and its gemmules, possibly of the species
spongilla. The images make this clear imo. But I'm a mathematician
not a biologist and I need some professional feedback. Please
take a look, thanks in advance.

Your speculations stand and fall by the chemical composition
of the components.
If the outcrop is chemically determined to be volcanic ash,
will that change your mind?
If the spherules are chemically determined to be basaltic
glass, will that change your mind?

February 28, 2004

Chosp wrote:

"jonathan" wrote in message :

The outcrop at the Opportunity site is covered by a decomposing
or partially fossilized sponge and its gemmules, possibly of the species
spongilla. The images make this clear imo. But I'm a mathematician
not a biologist and I need some professional feedback. Please
take a look, thanks in advance.

Your speculations stand and fall by the chemical composition
of the components.
If the outcrop is chemically determined to be volcanic ash,
will that change your mind?
If the spherules are chemically determined to be basaltic
glass, will that change your mind?

Of course, this is science, these are science newsgroups.

We will post our retractions right here on the usenet.

But wouldn't that require ... spectroscopy?

Thomas Lee Elifritz
http://elifritz.members.atlantic.net

In article , jonathan
wrote:

The outcrop at the Opportunity site is covered by a decomposing
or partially fossilized sponge and its gemmules, possibly of the species
spongilla. The images make this clear imo. But I'm a mathematician
not a biologist and I need some professional feedback. Please
take a look, thanks in advance.

And the sponges soaked up all the water. That's why Mars is so dry.

--
David M. Palmer (formerly @clark.net, @ematic.com)

"El Guapo" wrote in message
news:qx20c.424662$xy6.2471347@attbi_s02...
"jonathan" wrote in message
...

The outcrop at the Opportunity site is covered by a decomposing
or partially fossilized sponge and its gemmules, possibly of the species
spongilla. The images make this clear imo. But I'm a mathematician
not a biologist and I need some professional feedback.

I would recommend the following professional sources:


It's very very easy to shoot down a theory. It only takes
one solid peice of data from the observations to refute
the entire idea.

Just one!

I'm daring you


Jonathan

s




http://www.lenscrafters.com/

http://therapist.psychologytoday.com...of_search.php3

"David M. Palmer" wrote:

And the sponges soaked up all the water. That's why Mars is
so dry.

I thought the sand worms did that ... Oops, sorry; wrong
planet.

--
_____________B_a_r_b_a_r_o_s_s_a____________ ;^{
Wayne B. Hewitt Encinitas, CA

"David M. Palmer" wrote in message
...
In article , jonathan
wrote:

The outcrop at the Opportunity site is covered by a decomposing
or partially fossilized sponge and its gemmules, possibly of the species
spongilla. The images make this clear imo. But I'm a mathematician
not a biologist and I need some professional feedback. Please
take a look, thanks in advance.

And the sponges soaked up all the water. That's why Mars is so dry.

lol

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004, Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
| If the outcrop is chemically determined to be volcanic ash,
| will that change your mind?
| If the spherules are chemically determined to be basaltic
| glass, will that change your mind?
|
|Of course, this is science, these are science newsgroups.
|
|We will post our retractions right here on the usenet.
|
|But wouldn't that require ... spectroscopy?

Okay, what kind of spectroscopic data would confirm or contradict
the proposals at hand?

Having done a fair amount of hiking through a variety of lava beds,
and having watched a good number of movies on volcanoes, my gut
feeling was that a shower of volcanic material - ejecta - would
form lots of little beads or 'marbles' as they fell. Having a
more or less uniform size indicates merely that the "surface
tension" holding the ejecta together was defeated by the distance
through the atmosphere traveled.

February 29, 2004

Matthew Montchalin wrote:

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004, Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
| If the outcrop is chemically determined to be volcanic ash,
| will that change your mind?
| If the spherules are chemically determined to be basaltic
| glass, will that change your mind?
|
|Of course, this is science, these are science newsgroups.
|
|We will post our retractions right here on the usenet.
|
|But wouldn't that require ... spectroscopy?

Okay, what kind of spectroscopic data would confirm or contradict
the proposals at hand?

Well, mini-TES, APXS and Mossbauer spectra would help. Unfortunately,
that is unavailable at the present time.

Having done a fair amount of hiking through a variety of lava beds,
and having watched a good number of movies on volcanoes,

Wow, volcano movies. That's a new twist on the scientific method.

my gut
feeling was that a shower of volcanic material - ejecta - would
form lots of little beads or 'marbles' as they fell. Having a
more or less uniform size indicates merely that the "surface
tension" holding the ejecta together was defeated by the distance
through the atmosphere traveled.

Can you quantify that for us, you know, with numbers and equations and
stuff?

What about the subtle layering, for instance in the lower left partially
cut spherule :

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...0P2933M2M1.JPG

There are many other subtle and glaring clues, too super-spad radical to
mention, but I strongly suspect by your rhetoric, that you have not even
bothered to examine any of the evidence, past or present, pro or con,
and are talking out your skeptical and uninformed ass. The glacial-ocean
crater splatter hypothesis is no better or worse than the sponge gemmule
hypothesis. You are blinded by your preconceptions and preconceived
notions of 'how things ought to be'. This is the best link on the
scientific methods of the hard sciences that I can offer you, so I will
post it again for your benefit, because it appears you still don't get it.

http://www.av8n.com/physics/scientific-methods.htm



Thomas Lee Elifritz
http://elifritz.members.atlantic.net

The Opportunity site has an almost indisputable spatial structure.

The spheres are distributed randomly.
The spheres are distributed uniformly.

These two structures require an explanation.
The two most probable, by far, explanations for
this near perfect spatial form is either the spheres fell
from the sky, or they were distributed by a
body of water.

Any other explanations would be one-off or unique
events and very unlikely.

The first option, falling from the sky, has two most probable
sources. Impacts or volcanism. Since the site is covered by
a uniform blanket of soil obscuring any impact boulders any
impact must predate the soil. So an impact source is very
unlikely.

The grainy surface of the spheres combined with a perfect
spherical shape argues against volcanism. Also the dark
material is confined to the local region. In addition, finding
spheres delicately on the surface and in the soil in various
stages of decomposition or fossilization means any volcano
would need to be nearby and repeatedly erupting. No evidence
at all of a nearby or recent volcano exists.

The most probable source of the spheres is that they were
distributed by a body of water.

The images show the dark appearance of the region is due
to the spheres and soil. An overhead view makes clear the
source of the spheres are the crater outcrops in the area.
The huge volume of the spheres makes weathering out
of the outcrops almost absurd. A geological explanation for
the spheres appears more a matter of faith, and not of
observation.

Regional view
http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2004/01/24/


One is left with a most likely explanation that the spheres are
the result of a living system associated with the outcrops while
immersed in water.

At this point I'm wandering foolishly into the specialties of
others. But the above conclusion demands continued
investigation. There are several huge clues that allow the
possibility space for a solution to continue to be
dramatically reduced.

The first is the environmental context. Mars is a hostile environment
and any life is likely to be simple and ancient as compared to life
on earth.

The second clue is the 'geologic ripples' as Nasa now call them. They
are exclusively composed of cemented...spheres.

The third clue is of course the structure of the spheres.

Sphere close-ups.
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...P2953M2M1.HTML
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...P2933M2M1.HTML

Gemmule photo
http://waynesword.palomar.edu/plfeb96.htm#gemmules

These three parameters would reduce the search to a life form
that are suitable for a shallow marine environment, are reef-builders
and capable of releasing massive amounts of these spheres into
the water.

At this point I restart the search by looking at what life on earth
fits these restrictions. Perhaps the simplest and earliest animal
life on earth are sponges. They fit all these parameters. Further
reduction comes from limiting the search to the most ancient
of sponges. At this point the search is then further reduced
to species that produce a match for the spheres seen on Mars.

The gemmules of a spongilla match the structure of the observed
spheres in every way. They both would have a grainy surface, they
both would have an aperture, a slit and would occasionally bubble.
The gemmules would also be quite close to each other in size.
In addition the gemmules only hatch after release when the conditions
are correct, which would explain why only some of the spheres
show the above characteristics.

The glove fits.

Since the logical path ends with a conclusion that ...is supported
by the observations, I am forced to conclude the logic
is correct, and also the conclusion.

Even if one assumes the likelihood is small this idea is correct, the
profound implications, if true, justify consideration.




"jonathan" wrote in message
...



The outcrop at the Opportunity site is covered by a decomposing
or partially fossilized sponge and its gemmules, possibly of the species
spongilla. The images make this clear imo. But I'm a mathematician
not a biologist and I need some professional feedback. Please
take a look, thanks in advance.


Sphere close up of Opportunity outcrop
1)
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...P2953M2M1.HTML

Gemmule photo
2) http://waynesword.palomar.edu/plfeb96.htm#gemmules

"During the spring gemmule "hatch", the peripheral thesocytes
differentiate into a pinacoderm that balloons out, like a bubblegum
bubble, through the micropyle. This micropyle bubble makes
contact and attaches to the substratum"
http://64.78.63.75/samples/04BIORupp...oology7ch5.pdf

Sphere with bubble
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...P2933M2M1.HTML



Raw thread image
3) http://www.earthfiles.com/news/news....tegory=Science
4)
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...P2953M2M1.HTML

Imprints of skeletal spicules, very small thread sticking out and casting a shadow
upper left corner beneath the two large brown patches.
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...P2933M2M1.HTML

Sponge wall rover image, left of center
5)
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...P2932M1M1.HTML

Diagram of sponge wall, bottom of page
6) http://paleo.cortland.edu/tutorial/P...a/porifera.htm



All raw Rover images can be found here
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...portunity.html


The correlation between the Rover images and a sponge
gemmule are many.

1) Both show a surface that is grainy, or covered with spicules
2) Both show the aperture and slice
3) Image 3 shows a skeletal spicule as in the left
of image 2 just above the word gemmule
4) A gemmule would explain the shiny spheres
5) A gemmule would explain why only some of
the Rover spheres show an aperture.
6) A gemmule would explain the occassional sphere 'twins' or bubble.
7) The Opportunity site was chosen for a possible
previous marine environment, which sponges
occupy.
8) A sponge release of gemmules would explain the uniform
and random distribution of the spheres, since no impact
boulders or nearby volcanoes are seen near the site.
9) Sponges were perhaps the very first animal life
on earth, we should expect a similar first life on Mars.
10 Sponges, spongilla, are known to have a symbiotic
relationship with sulfur reducing bacteria, and use it for
a primary food source. Such bacteria is associated with
hematite, thrives off elemental sulfur, low oxygen and salty
environments.




Overhead views of Meridiani
http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2004/01/24/
The second image shows how the density of spheres
settled in the channels. This image shows a recent
reef system I believe.


Sponge covered rock?
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...P2555R1M1.HTML



Dark dunes
http://marsprogram.jpl.nasa.gov/gall.../PIA01695.html
http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/...se/7707rel.gif
http://marsprogram.jpl.nasa.gov/gall.../PIA02398.html

It appears that ancient furrows, following precisely where water would stand, are
covered in a blanket of dark material similar to the Opportunity site.
The clearly defined, if not startling, outline of the dark material shows that
fallout from impacts or eruptions are not a possibility. This dark canyons
may be additional blooms of recent marine life.




"Each gemmule is covered with a protective outer layer and a
foraminal aperture. In some species the gemmules are also covered with spicules.
Gemmules are commonly produced during the fall, and like the overwintering turions
of
duckweeds, are able to survive severe winter conditions. The gemmules can withstand
repeated freezings and thawings and may be viable for three years are more.
Upon germination, a creamy mass of amoebocytes slowly flows out of the
foraminal aperture."
http://waynesword.palomar.edu/plfeb96.htm#gemmules



"One exciting place (that is accessible for some coastal biology classes) to observe
living sponges is in intertidal sea caves found along rocky ocean shores. Biology
students who investigate these geological features are likely to find 'living
paintings' on the cave walls, formed by sponges or groups of sponges. In high
wave-shock areas, these sponges are usually only a centimeter or two in thickness.

The formation of gemmules is another form of asexual reproduction. This strategy is
common for freshwater sponges, but rare in marine species. The gemmule is a
densely-matted, hardened ball containing archeocytes protected by collagen and
special
spicules. In freshwater sponges, these balls survive through the winter and then
form
a new clone in the spring.
http://ebiomedia.com/prod/BOsponges.html



"Frozen water makes up as much as 10 percent of the top meter (three feet)
of surface material in some regions close to the equator."
http://marsprogram.jpl.nasa.gov/odys...20031208a.html




Jonathan Maatsch
j0nathan @comcast.net


s