Great Temp. Great Heat Man verses Nature But not for Long Spacetimes

On Jan 29, 9:34Â*am, Jeffâ˜*Relf wrote:

We don't care what religion you're espousing...

Don't need no steenkin' religion. :-)

Einstein ► Trashed the “ black hole � concept in no uncertain terms...

Huh?? See - http://universe.nasa.gov/science/blackhole.html

...because objects falling into a true event horizon
would move at unphysical speeds, faster than the speed of light.

You're 'waay behind the curve, dude. And you clearly don't grasp
*frames of referance*. While SR prohibits matter from exceeding c **in
space**, it imposes no speed limit whatsoever on the flow rate of
*space itself*. See -
http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/gr-qc/pdf/0411/0411060v2.pdf While this
model obviously couches the "flow" of space as a metaphor, dig this:
The flow of space is *not* metaphoric, but very literal. The literal
flow of a literal medium is what is "Beyond Einstein". And it's the
flow rate of the spatial medium that exceeds c and establishes the
BH's event horizon.

Now take the inverse of this: the supposed "ever-accelerating
expansion" of the universe and the deep-fringe objects out at the very
limit of visibility. They are expected to eventually exceed the speed
of light as they recede. Whoa now, hoss! SR prohibits this. So what
the hell is gonna exceed c except **the space they're embedded in**?

(Of course "ever-accelerating expansion" may be a grand illusion in
itself. But if it is true, the question still stands: 'What' is
expanding faster than c and carrying the deep-fringe objects along for
the ride? 'Nothing'?)

A true event horizon is forever metaphysical;
i.e. it's a pure religion, â–º never a science.

Whatever. oc

Hagar wrote:
"BradGuth" wrote in message
...
On Jan 27, 10:08 am, Jeff?Relf wrote:
Empirically, how cold are " black holes " Bert ?
I'm talking measured temperature, not theory.

Anti-Matter induced gamma-rays from Sagittarius A*,
the purported black hole at the center of the Milky Way,
makes the sun look like an ice cube.

If you want cold, you must go to the outer edge of the Milky Way,
where the cold vacuous dark matter is.

Now way, as a black hole has got to be at least a million fold colder
than any interstellar void. Is there such a thing as -K? (if not,
perhaps there should be)
. - Brad Guth

So let me get this right, Brad, BHs are far colder than the lowest
temperature in the Universe ?? Oh, I see, that explains the million +
degrees of hot jets of particles ejected for billions of miles along its
rotational axis by matter about to be sucked into the BH.

How much energy does -1000 K represent? (like the anti-matter core of
a BH, seems that it should be worth a little something)


Black Holes are known for their tremendous gravity. That gravity interprets
into extremely high internal pressures. Any internal pressure creates heat.
So perhaps you could explain to us dummies where the negative (-) absolute
zero temperatures supposedly come from that you claim to exist in a BH.

I'm not nearly that smart. Why don't you give us your best swag?


BTW, the rest of the scientific world seems to believe that the lowest
temperature anywhere in the visible Universe is about 3 degrees above the
absolute, as measured by COBE, with the cute moniker of Cosmic Microwave
Background Radiation..

If we're starting off at 3 K, I wonder what that event horizon
temperature gradient is like, especially since all of that BH gravity
is supposedly sucking the very last of whatever thermal energy out of
the surrounding space at something better than the velocity of 'c'?
.. - Brad Guth

"BradGuth" wrote in message
...


Hagar wrote:
"BradGuth" wrote in message
...
On Jan 27, 10:08 am, Jeff?Relf wrote:
Empirically, how cold are " black holes " Bert ?
I'm talking measured temperature, not theory.

Anti-Matter induced gamma-rays from Sagittarius A*,
the purported black hole at the center of the Milky Way,
makes the sun look like an ice cube.

If you want cold, you must go to the outer edge of the Milky Way,
where the cold vacuous dark matter is.

Now way, as a black hole has got to be at least a million fold colder
than any interstellar void. Is there such a thing as -K? (if not,
perhaps there should be)
. - Brad Guth

So let me get this right, Brad, BHs are far colder than the lowest
temperature in the Universe ?? Oh, I see, that explains the million +
degrees of hot jets of particles ejected for billions of miles along its
rotational axis by matter about to be sucked into the BH.

How much energy does -1000 K represent? (like the anti-matter core of
a BH, seems that it should be worth a little something)

At the Absolute Zero is a state which does not absorb or emit energy, all
activity ceases... also called Zero Point Energy.
Just like there is no "Blacker then Black" i.e. R, G, B = 0
there is no Colder than Cold", i.e. 0 degrees K.
So, no Brad, it isn't worth even a little something.


Black Holes are known for their tremendous gravity. That gravity
interprets
into extremely high internal pressures. Any internal pressure creates
heat.
So perhaps you could explain to us dummies where the negative (-)
absolute
zero temperatures supposedly come from that you claim to exist in a BH.

I'm not nearly that smart. Why don't you give us your best swag?

Once again, you speak in riddles. What the hell is a "best swag"??



BTW, the rest of the scientific world seems to believe that the lowest
temperature anywhere in the visible Universe is about 3 degrees above the
absolute, as measured by COBE, with the cute moniker of Cosmic Microwave
Background Radiation..

If we're starting off at 3 K, I wonder what that event horizon
temperature gradient is like, especially since all of that BH gravity
is supposedly sucking the very last of whatever thermal energy out of
the surrounding space at something better than the velocity of 'c'?

There is nothing that travels "something better than 'c', Brad.
Go read a science book or two.

. - Brad Guth

I might be giving Brad too much credit,
but perhaps he's joking about the “ negative temperature �
concept in quantum mechanics ( i.e. the spin state “ heat � sink ).

No matter, the empirical data is in,
if Sagittarius A* is a “ black hole � it's hotter than mega suns.

On Jan 29, 1:14 pm, "Hagar" wrote:
"BradGuth" wrote in message

...





Hagar wrote:
"BradGuth" wrote in message
...
On Jan 27, 10:08 am, Jeff?Relf wrote:
Empirically, how cold are " black holes " Bert ?
I'm talking measured temperature, not theory.

Anti-Matter induced gamma-rays from Sagittarius A*,
the purported black hole at the center of the Milky Way,
makes the sun look like an ice cube.

If you want cold, you must go to the outer edge of the Milky Way,
where the cold vacuous dark matter is.

Now way, as a black hole has got to be at least a million fold colder
than any interstellar void. Is there such a thing as -K? (if not,
perhaps there should be)
. - BradGuth

So let me get this right, Brad, BHs are far colder than the lowest
temperature in the Universe ?? Oh, I see, that explains the million +
degrees of hot jets of particles ejected for billions of miles along its
rotational axis by matter about to be sucked into the BH.

How much energy does -1000 K represent? (like the anti-matter core of
a BH, seems that it should be worth a little something)

At the Absolute Zero is a state which does not absorb or emit energy, all
activity ceases... also called Zero Point Energy.
Just like there is no "Blacker then Black" i.e. R, G, B = 0
there is no Colder than Cold", i.e. 0 degrees K.
So, no Brad, it isn't worth even a little something.

Interesting that anti-matter isn't worth anything. I'm impressed with
your knowledge.


Black Holes are known for their tremendous gravity. That gravity
interprets
into extremely high internal pressures. Any internal pressure creates
heat.
So perhaps you could explain to us dummies where the negative (-)
absolute
zero temperatures supposedly come from that you claim to exist in a BH.

I'm not nearly that smart. Why don't you give us your best swag?

Once again, you speak in riddles. What the hell is a "best swag"??

Scientific Wild Ass Guess


BTW, the rest of the scientific world seems to believe that the lowest
temperature anywhere in the visible Universe is about 3 degrees above the
absolute, as measured by COBE, with the cute moniker of Cosmic Microwave
Background Radiation..

If we're starting off at 3 K, I wonder what that event horizon
temperature gradient is like, especially since all of that BH gravity
is supposedly sucking the very last of whatever thermal energy out of
the surrounding space at something better than the velocity of 'c'?

There is nothing that travels "something better than 'c', Brad.
Go read a science book or two.

Once again, you and others of your kind are so all-knowing.
- Brad Guth

oc Should the dough in the raisin bread theory exceed 'c' at its
crust(fringe of the universe). we have to consider thinking outside of
SR. The fabric of space(ether) has a structure of pure energy(no matter
particles). such as electrons,or protons. Only QM can be used to give
a reason why the ether can expand(accelerate) in time faster than 'c'
No use using Einstein's theories in the sub-microscopic realm it just
does not fit. bert

On Jan 30, 5:05*am, (G=EMC^2 Glazier) wrote:

Should the dough in the raisin bread theory exceed 'c' at its
crust(fringe of the universe).

Problem is, the proponents of the "raisin bread" analogy apparently
believe in dough-less bread. :-)

..we have to consider thinking outside of
SR. *

We have to go beyond both SR and GR and recognize not only the "dough"
but the fact that it's compressible/expansible and amenable to
pressure/density gradients (particularly at extreme cosmological
distances). That'll bring SR/GR out of the present 'flat' status which
describes space mathematically as a 'void-nothing'. oc

oc BHs are absorbing inferred space photons. The great gravity
compression has squeezed away their energy(wave length) Heat goes from
hot to cold,and space is 2.7K and a BH is 1,000,000 times colder. My
thoughts Bert

On Jan 29, 1:14 pm, "Hagar" wrote:
"BradGuth" wrote in message

...





Hagar wrote:
"BradGuth" wrote in message
...
On Jan 27, 10:08 am, Jeff?Relf wrote:
Empirically, how cold are " black holes " Bert ?
I'm talking measured temperature, not theory.

Anti-Matter induced gamma-rays from Sagittarius A*,
the purported black hole at the center of the Milky Way,
makes the sun look like an ice cube.

If you want cold, you must go to the outer edge of the Milky Way,
where the cold vacuous dark matter is.

Now way, as a black hole has got to be at least a million fold colder
than any interstellar void. Is there such a thing as -K? (if not,
perhaps there should be)
. - Brad Guth

So let me get this right, Brad, BHs are far colder than the lowest
temperature in the Universe ?? Oh, I see, that explains the million +
degrees of hot jets of particles ejected for billions of miles along its
rotational axis by matter about to be sucked into the BH.

How much energy does -1000 K represent? (like the anti-matter core of
a BH, seems that it should be worth a little something)

At the Absolute Zero is a state which does not absorb or emit energy, all
activity ceases... also called Zero Point Energy.
Just like there is no "Blacker then Black" i.e. R, G, B = 0
there is no Colder than Cold", i.e. 0 degrees K.
So, no Brad, it isn't worth even a little something.

Silly boy, then perhaps BHs don't even exist, any more so than 'c' is
all there is to say.

Why not '-c'?


Black Holes are known for their tremendous gravity. That gravity
interprets
into extremely high internal pressures. Any internal pressure creates
heat.
So perhaps you could explain to us dummies where the negative (-)
absolute
zero temperatures supposedly come from that you claim to exist in a BH.

I'm not nearly that smart. Why don't you give us your best swag?

Once again, you speak in riddles. What the hell is a "best swag"??

BTW, the rest of the scientific world seems to believe that the lowest
temperature anywhere in the visible Universe is about 3 degrees above the
absolute, as measured by COBE, with the cute moniker of Cosmic Microwave
Background Radiation..

If we're starting off at 3 K, I wonder what that event horizon
temperature gradient is like, especially since all of that BH gravity
is supposedly sucking the very last of whatever thermal energy out of
the surrounding space at something better than the velocity of 'c'?

There is nothing that travels "something better than 'c', Brad.
Go read a science book or two.

"-c" = ???? (- 300,000 km/s)

. - Brad Guth

On Jan 29, 9:57 am, Jeffâ˜*Relf wrote:
Einstein proved Black holes can't exist. A lesser mind,
it took Stephen Hawking decades to realize Einstein was right.

General Relativitity forbids infinite density.

You're espousing a religion Bert,
not engagin in “ hypothetical thinking �.
A true event horizon is forever a religion, never a science.

What are the â–º Facts Bert ? What's hotter ?
Sagettarius A* ( the so-called “ frozen star � ) or the sun ?

Bert knows the thermal dynamic facts of beer, which is better off than
most of us.
. - Brad Guth