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Coming full circle



 
 
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  #31  
Old May 1st 17, 05:24 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Bill[_9_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 311
Default Coming full circle

On Sun, 30 Apr 2017 20:13:46 -0400, JBL wrote:

On 04/30/2017 02:50 PM, Bill wrote:
On Thu, 27 Apr 2017 11:02:57 -0400, JBL wrote:

There's something I don't quite get here. I have been an infrequent
visitor to this group off and on for over 20 years and have seldom
posted anything. I have seen more than a fair share of idiots come and
go, and I have even seen folks I had one time respected end up going
down the spiral. One thing that has always amazed me is why on Earth
people keep responding to this guy? I for the life of me can't figure
it out. I have him filtered, so only see him IF someone not filtered
responds to him and it happens ALL the time. Why waste all the time?
The guy is either a desperate attention getter, delusional, or has some
mental aberration but why oh why do people keep responding? Now THAT is
something that always amuses and yet sometimes annoys me.

JBL



Given that someone, somewhere, would be the focus of 1461's attention;
then isn't it better for all concerned if his focus would remain here
(on SAA)?

Bill



I certainly think so, yes, but try telling that to the idiots who
continue responding to him. Even after I posted, someone decided to yet
again re-quote what the primary idiot said, somehow in response to MY
comment, so the secondary idiot has done it yet again, making the
primary's filtered comments visible in my feed. But then again, when
was the last time this group actually remained ON topic, not for the
last 15 years anyhow.

JBL


What can I say? USENET has become a place where many people come with
the intent of arguing/fighting. The trend seems to contine to
accelerate. :-(

The options a ignore the crap, let it roll off your back, attempt to
filter it, or stay just away... all of them are potentially viable
options...depending on one's personal desires.

If filtering is your thing, you might benefit from trying 40tude Dialog.

The ONLY possible advantage 40tude has over your current client is that
40tude offers extensive unsenet filtering (Including custom scripting
with regex - not that you'd need regex/scripting to deal with this
issue). What 40tude can do, that Thunderbird can't is: you can hide
oriels posts and replies to him - with minimal negative side effects.

It's simple to do, though the steps to accomplish is are a bit clunky.
Basically, we use 40tudes "scoring and actions" to inform 40tude that we
want the ignore flag set for all of O's headers (and replies). Then we
use options under Group menu/message views, to
set up a custom view whereby only "not ingored" posts are shown.

While not 100% perfect, it will do a very effective job of hiding the
vast majority of the material you're not wanting to see. Oriel's crap
can be removed from your sight, along with 99.9% of replies to him. Yet
no one has been killfiled - so there's none of the negative side-effects
associated with plonking/killfiling/filtering individual posters.

The "bad": As capable as 40tude is, it is *ancient* software, that's no
longer officially supported. It is for text only groups. The only
support is user to user via news.software.readers, or (if you read/write
german) de.comm.software.40tude-dialog. Use Thunderbird, or any modern
email client - using 40tude for email isn't recommended.

While 40tude runs reasonably well on newer versions of windows, it is
necessary to install it into its own directory. Do not install it into
either of the "program files" locations. I install it outside those
locations... create a directory c:\dialog, or whatever suits.

There are updates to dialog, but people who are more intimate with
40tude's inner workings have stated that the 2.0.15.41 is the best
version; they caution against using the 2.0.15.84 version, claiming
that it causes more issues than it fixes.

If you manually set up Thunderbird for eternal september, you shouldn't
have much trouble gettting 40tude up and running. If you get stuck, I'm
willing to offer what assistance I can, and there's
news.software.readers. Include [Dialog] in your subject to alert people
that your interest is about that client.

The software is free and available here (the "offical"/authorized site
after the author pulled the plug on support for 40tude):

http://dialog.datalist.org/



--
Email address is a Spam trap.
  #32  
Old May 1st 17, 06:44 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris.B[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,001
Default Coming full circle

On Monday, 1 May 2017 18:24:41 UTC+2, Bill wrote:
snip
If you manually set up Thunderbird for eternal september, you shouldn't
have much trouble gettting 40tude up and running. If you get stuck, I'm
willing to offer what assistance I can, and there's
news.software.readers. Include [Dialog] in your subject to alert people
that your interest is about that client.

The software is free and available here (the "offical"/authorized site
after the author pulled the plug on support for 40tude):

http://dialog.datalist.org/



At the risk of offending tenderized sensibilities there is always the option of using "Google Groups."
A glance at the forum's "website" will quickly inform the visitor whether any of his pet hates has posted and is to be ignored.
Cookies optional but useful for highlighting new content in bold.

I rapidly became sick of reading every s.a.a. post by mail so struggle to see the point of doing so.
If you add s.a.a. to your favourites/bookmarks it takes only a second to scan the forum "website" for anything remotely on topic.
Add [say] another [optional] second, or two, to verbally express dissatisfaction with the contents.
Close the tab and forget it until the next time your faulty sense of optimism is buoyed yet again.

Any fears that Google is monitoring your activities here should [surely] be extended to the NSA routinely scanning all email for "markers."
Who knows, under Trumpet@Twit, all virtual interest in science-based subjects may well make you a "mark" for future re-education.
The communists could do it all longhand, long before modern computers.
Surely Trumpet's jackbooted minions can do infinitely "better" with countless billions to spend on surveillance of the [presumed] innocent.

That's the nice thing about s.a.a. Nobody except we few are interested.
All references to astronomy and "the dark web" can be safely ignored on the grounds of light pollution. ;-)

  #33  
Old May 1st 17, 06:49 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,551
Default Coming full circle

On Monday, May 1, 2017 at 5:24:41 PM UTC+1, Bill wrote:
On Sun, 30 Apr 2017 20:13:46 -0400, JBL wrote:

On 04/30/2017 02:50 PM, Bill wrote:
On Thu, 27 Apr 2017 11:02:57 -0400, JBL wrote:

There's something I don't quite get here. I have been an infrequent
visitor to this group off and on for over 20 years and have seldom
posted anything. I have seen more than a fair share of idiots come and
go, and I have even seen folks I had one time respected end up going
down the spiral. One thing that has always amazed me is why on Earth
people keep responding to this guy? I for the life of me can't figure
it out. I have him filtered, so only see him IF someone not filtered
responds to him and it happens ALL the time. Why waste all the time?
The guy is either a desperate attention getter, delusional, or has some
mental aberration but why oh why do people keep responding? Now THAT is
something that always amuses and yet sometimes annoys me.

JBL


Given that someone, somewhere, would be the focus of 1461's attention;
then isn't it better for all concerned if his focus would remain here
(on SAA)?

Bill



I certainly think so, yes, but try telling that to the idiots who
continue responding to him. Even after I posted, someone decided to yet
again re-quote what the primary idiot said, somehow in response to MY
comment, so the secondary idiot has done it yet again, making the
primary's filtered comments visible in my feed. But then again, when
was the last time this group actually remained ON topic, not for the
last 15 years anyhow.

JBL


What can I say? USENET has become a place where many people come with
the intent of arguing/fighting. The trend seems to contine to
accelerate. :-(


Imagine that, a forum where arguing and disagreement takes place but to be fair to you, coming from the moderated forums I know what you mean.

There has been more astronomy done in SAA in the last two decades than in the last 300 years, at least in terms of putting observations in context of terrestrial science, the Earth's motions, the structure of the solar system and many more topics.





  #34  
Old May 2nd 17, 02:17 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Bill[_9_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 311
Default Coming full circle

On Mon, 1 May 2017 10:44:51 -0700 (PDT), Chris.B wrote:

On Monday, 1 May 2017 18:24:41 UTC+2, Bill wrote:
snip
If you manually set up Thunderbird for eternal september, you shouldn't
have much trouble gettting 40tude up and running. If you get stuck, I'm
willing to offer what assistance I can, and there's
news.software.readers. Include [Dialog] in your subject to alert people
that your interest is about that client.

The software is free and available here (the "offical"/authorized site
after the author pulled the plug on support for 40tude):

http://dialog.datalist.org/


At the risk of offending tenderized sensibilities there is always the option of using "Google Groups."
A glance at the forum's "website" will quickly inform the visitor whether any of his pet hates has posted and is to be ignored.
Cookies optional but useful for highlighting new content in bold.

I rapidly became sick of reading every s.a.a. post by mail so struggle to see the point of doing so.
If you add s.a.a. to your favourites/bookmarks it takes only a second to scan the forum "website" for anything remotely on topic.
Add [say] another [optional] second, or two, to verbally express dissatisfaction with the contents.
Close the tab and forget it until the next time your faulty sense of optimism is buoyed yet again.

Any fears that Google is monitoring your activities here should [surely] be extended to the NSA routinely scanning all email for "markers."
Who knows, under Trumpet@Twit, all virtual interest in science-based subjects may well make you a "mark" for future re-education.
The communists could do it all longhand, long before modern computers.
Surely Trumpet's jackbooted minions can do infinitely "better" with countless billions to spend on surveillance of the [presumed] innocent.

That's the nice thing about s.a.a. Nobody except we few are interested.
All references to astronomy and "the dark web" can be safely ignored on the grounds of light pollution. ;-)


USENET messages by mail? Never knew anyone to do that. It sounds like a
horrid way to access USENET.

You made a good point: there are people who would likely be better
served with the simple interface/easier access that google groups
offers.

There are other folk, for which google groups would not be practical:
People with many groups/large volumes of nntp traffic where rapid
filtering/processing of "junk" is an absolute necessity; people who (in
additon to USENET need to conned to private nntp servers; and so on.

--
Email address is a Spam trap.
  #35  
Old May 2nd 17, 08:28 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,551
Default Coming full circle

For those who fret about killfiles or some other childish nonsense the fact is that this is an unmoderated forum and I encourage people not to read my contributions or better still, move to the moderated forums where they will be wrapped up in the mediocrity of approved behavior.

Now back to the thread.

At least Newton was interesting in terms of forensics as to what he tried to do with astronomical observations inherited from the geocentric and Sun centered astronomers unlike his followers who seem not to be able to engage with either group. I could short circuit the whole thing and bring up the timekeeping facility known as the Equation of Time which bundles the Earth's dual surface rotations which create the observed natural inequality in the passage of the Sun across the observer's meridian but there is more to be gained by looking at the original scheme where geocentricity morphs into a moving Earth in a Sun centered system

"Absolute time, in astronomy, is distinguished from relative, by the equation of time. For the natural days are truly unequal, though they are commonly considered as equal and used for a measure of time; astronomers correct this inequality for their more accurate deducing of the celestial motions...The necessity of which equation, for determining the times of a phænomenon, is evinced as well from the experiments of the pendulum clock, as by eclipses of the satellites of Jupiter." Principia

Being among contributors who are entirely influenced by a story such as 20th century relativity and believe it is an achievement of massive proportions can be funny considering that most people here now know that the Equation of Time represents an observation with so much astronomical content relating to the motions of the Earth. So,after wasting a century on a bad wordplay based on Newton's definitions, we have come full circle back to the original definitions as they were intended. The purpose here is to build on the original approaches the Sun centered astronomers took by modification and adaptation of contemporary imaging rather than being stuck with forensics arising from a mathematician's wreckage of astronomical methods and insights.

  #36  
Old May 2nd 17, 09:28 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 306
Default Coming full circle

On Sunday, April 30, 2017 at 11:12:58 PM UTC+1, palsing wrote:
[to Gerald]
You can do this same calculation for your own location


No, I don't think Gerald can do calculations. Even reading a table of numbers seems to be beyond his mathematical abilities. That's why he rambles on about analogies and loves youtube clips - no hard sums.
  #37  
Old May 2nd 17, 07:29 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,551
Default Coming full circle

It is time to set aside the old term 'heliacal rising' insofar as the first annual appearance of Sirius is a lateral motion of a distant star with the central Sun as a focus for the Earth's orbital motion which makes the appearance possible -

http://www.skyandtelescope.com/obser...liacal-rising/

I suspect that a lifetime spent referencing stellar motion within the boundaries of the local horizon make it difficult for observers to adjust to a Sun centered perspective or leave behind a rotating stellar circumpolar framework limited to Polaris.

This feature could have presented at any time where the lateral appearance of Sirius displaces its 'rising' as the observer shifts emphasis to the orbital motion of the Earth alone.



 




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