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Two Crews For Tiangong



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 5th 10, 06:21 PM posted to sci.space.policy
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Default Two Crews For Tiangong

"We've recently had another short "up periscope"
moment in monitoring China's human spaceflight
program. This latest scan, produced from some
Chinese media statements, suggests that the
Tiangong space laboratory will be launched in 2011,
and three Shenzhou missions will be sent to it in
the future."

See:

http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Tw...ngong_999.html
  #2  
Old March 8th 10, 08:56 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Pat Flannery
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Default Two Crews For Tiangong

On 3/5/2010 9:21 AM, wrote:
"We've recently had another short "up periscope"
moment in monitoring China's human spaceflight
program. This latest scan, produced from some
Chinese media statements, suggests that the
Tiangong space laboratory will be launched in 2011,
and three Shenzhou missions will be sent to it in
the future."

See:

http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Tw...ngong_999.html

What I can't understand is what this whole thing is about; unless
Tiangong has some sort of a military mission it is to perform, it's so
small as to be pretty much worthless for a manned space station, or even
building a multi-modular design using this small of component modules -
you would end up making a large number of booster launches to build a
little space station where the crew would be constantly going through
hatchways between the small modules.
They really need something in the Proton payload capacity range to make
even a small station really practical.

Pat

  #3  
Old March 8th 10, 03:36 PM posted to sci.space.policy
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Default Two Crews For Tiangong

On Mar 8, 2:56�am, Pat Flannery wrote:
On 3/5/2010 9:21 AM, wrote:

"We've recently had another short "up periscope"
moment in monitoring China's human spaceflight
program. This latest scan, produced from some
Chinese media statements, suggests that the
Tiangong space laboratory will be launched in 2011,
and three Shenzhou missions will be sent to it in
the future."


See:


http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Tw...ngong_999.html


What I can't understand is what this whole thing is about; unless
Tiangong has some sort of a military mission it is to perform, it's so
small as to be pretty much worthless for a manned space station, or even
building a multi-modular design using this small of component modules -
you would end up making a large number of booster launches to build a
little space station where the crew would be constantly going through
hatchways between the small modules.
They really need something in the Proton payload capacity range to make
even a small station really practical.

Pat


microgravity experiments are ideally performed in small unmanned
laboratories, with occasional crew visits.

this was orignally proposed for nasa, but they choose the large manned
type that ended up as ISS.

People moving around mess up microgravity experiments. hopefully they
will get somer real results

unlike nasa who only has excuses
  #4  
Old March 8th 10, 07:33 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Rick Jones[_3_]
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Posts: 587
Default Two Crews For Tiangong

Pat Flannery wrote:
What I can't understand is what this whole thing is about; unless
Tiangong has some sort of a military mission it is to perform, it's
so small as to be pretty much worthless for a manned space station,
or even building a multi-modular design using this small of
component modules - you would end up making a large number of
booster launches to build a little space station where the crew
would be constantly going through hatchways between the small
modules.


They really need something in the Proton payload capacity range to
make even a small station really practical.


Does it have to be practical to stoke national prestige?

rick jones
--
a wide gulf separates "what if" from "if only"
these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway...
feel free to post, OR email to rick.jones2 in hp.com but NOT BOTH...
  #5  
Old March 9th 10, 08:56 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Pat Flannery
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Default Two Crews For Tiangong

On 3/8/2010 10:33 AM, Rick Jones wrote:

They really need something in the Proton payload capacity range to
make even a small station really practical.


Does it have to be practical to stoke national prestige?


After a while it will have to be, as it won't be possible to get any
more propaganda value out of it by doing the same thing over and over.
Each of the Salyut stations did a little more than its predecessor till
you ended up with Mir, which was a pretty slick little space station
when everything was working right, though it kept its crew busy just
keeping everything running with little time left to do productive research
The Chinese station bears a strong resemblance to this never-deployed
Soviet concept that was to be used for manned reconnaissance from orbit:
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/soyuzr.htm
It was a cheaper alternative to Almaz that didn't require Proton launches.

Pat
  #6  
Old March 9th 10, 04:09 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Jeff Findley
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Default Two Crews For Tiangong


"Pat Flannery" wrote in message
dakotatelephone...

What I can't understand is what this whole thing is about; unless Tiangong
has some sort of a military mission it is to perform, it's so small as to
be pretty much worthless for a manned space station, or even building a
multi-modular design using this small of component modules - you would end
up making a large number of booster launches to build a little space
station where the crew would be constantly going through hatchways between
the small modules.
They really need something in the Proton payload capacity range to make
even a small station really practical.


It's pretty obvious that the size of the station is constrained by the size
of their launch vehicle. The first mission to their station will be
unmanned to test rendezvous and docking. Without first testing this
technique, it's a bit difficult to build a station with more than one
launch.

In other words, they're taking baby steps. They seem to be about as
advanced as the Soviets were in the early 70's (e.g. they're testing
unmanned docking similar to the first Progress docking to a Salyut). The
Chinese seem to lack a launch vehicle big enough to put a Salyut sized
station in orbit on one launch.

Jeff
--
"Take heart amid the deepening gloom
that your dog is finally getting enough cheese" - Deteriorata - National
Lampoon


  #7  
Old March 9th 10, 07:32 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Jeff Findley
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Posts: 5,012
Default Two Crews For Tiangong


"Pat Flannery" wrote in message
dakotatelephone...
Those are exactly my thoughts on the matter; rather than being some sort
of imminent threat to the US in space, the Chinese have a manned space
effort that is so minimal in its aims and so slow moving in its
accomplishments that it barely exists.
Without getting a larger booster into service they are pretty much stymied
in what they can do, and to get funding for that larger booster it will
have to be shown that it has real commercial capabilities for satellite
launching, an area in which it will run into a lot of international
competition.


Agreed. And even if they were aggressively developing an HLV, a bigger
space station, and even lunar landing plans, they'd still be duplicating
feats that the US and Soviets accomplished in the 1960's and 1970's. In
other words, they'd still be 30+ years behind.

That's why I LOL when someone in the US uses the Chinese as a reason that
the US has to maintain the lead in space or "they're going to overtake us".
Yea, right!

Jeff
--
"Take heart amid the deepening gloom
that your dog is finally getting enough cheese" - Deteriorata - National
Lampoon


  #8  
Old March 9th 10, 08:03 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Pat Flannery
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Posts: 18,465
Default Two Crews For Tiangong

On 3/9/2010 7:09 AM, Jeff Findley wrote:

It's pretty obvious that the size of the station is constrained by the size
of their launch vehicle. The first mission to their station will be
unmanned to test rendezvous and docking. Without first testing this
technique, it's a bit difficult to build a station with more than one
launch.

In other words, they're taking baby steps. They seem to be about as
advanced as the Soviets were in the early 70's (e.g. they're testing
unmanned docking similar to the first Progress docking to a Salyut). The
Chinese seem to lack a launch vehicle big enough to put a Salyut sized
station in orbit on one launch.


Those are exactly my thoughts on the matter; rather than being some sort
of imminent threat to the US in space, the Chinese have a manned space
effort that is so minimal in its aims and so slow moving in its
accomplishments that it barely exists.
Without getting a larger booster into service they are pretty much
stymied in what they can do, and to get funding for that larger booster
it will have to be shown that it has real commercial capabilities for
satellite launching, an area in which it will run into a lot of
international competition.

Pat

 




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