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  #1  
Old March 8th 06, 11:27 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
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Default Recommendation request: /= $200

Partly inspired by the excellent film "My Date With Drew," my wife and I had
resolved to buy a telescope with whatever windfall might come our way. Now
it has; a small sum ($200), but enough to purchase something more powerful
than the 8x50 binocs we currently own. (We live just north of San Francisco,
so rather than pay shipping I'll take a day off and visit Scope City --
unless someone has a better visitational recommendation).

As a former amateur astronomer (20+ years ago), I've been doing a ton of
online/magazine research and am amazed at what's now available, and for
versatility's sake will likely go with an 80mm refractor (Celestron or
Konusmotor) on an EQ mount so as to combine terrestrial/planetary
observation with hints of DSOs, but could really use a bit of specific
input:

1. One article (Sky and Telescope's '05 Buyer's Guide) suggests that any
finderscope less than 6x30 is a waste of cash. True or false?

2. Two different vendor websites say that an 80mm refractor either will or
won't show galaxies and/or nebulae. Come again? I don't expect to see dust
lanes with an 80mm refractor; OTOH, my wife would really like to be able to
see M84 even without the colors. ;-)

TIA,

Scoop
  #2  
Old March 8th 06, 11:43 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
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Default Recommendation request: /= $200

Scoop wrote:
1. One article (Sky and Telescope's '05 Buyer's Guide) suggests that any
finderscope less than 6x30 is a waste of cash. True or false?


Well, that depends. (Just the sort of answer you wanted, right?) See,
in the first place, most 6x30 finders are internally stopped (that is,
they have a washer-like thingie in them that baffles some of the light
coming through) in order to limit the amount of spurious color, so that
they act more like 6x24 finders--the image in them is dimmer than it
would be if they were really 6x30. The same is true of the 5x24
finders--they're also internally stopped. Fortunately, it's not too
much trouble to take the washer out, if you're not too squeamish about
opening the thing up.

Secondly, if you have really dark skies, the 5x24 finders will do all
right. The whole point is being able to identify when you're close to
your target, and be able to recognize the star field, so that you can
do your fine adjustments. In light-polluted Santa Monica (a community
near Los Angeles), a 5x24 finder would be usable for me, but then, I'm
pretty handy at star-hopping. Lots of people would find it pretty
difficult. Under dark skies, it might be different; a 5x24 finder has
a wider field of view, so you might actually be able to see more of
what you need to in order to identify your target. The eighth-magnitude
stars that you see through a 6x30 finder won't help you if your star
atlas only goes down to the seventh magnitude.

2. Two different vendor websites say that an 80mm refractor either will or
won't show galaxies and/or nebulae. Come again? I don't expect to see dust
lanes with an 80mm refractor; OTOH, my wife would really like to be able to
see M84 even without the colors. ;-)


From a dark site, an 80 mm refractor will show all the Messier objects,
and many others, if they're well placed that night. Some of them will
even look pretty nice. M84 will probably look mostly like a faint
cotton blob. What they won't show is anything like the level of detail
you can see even in black-and-white photos.

From the city, it's a lot harder to say. Everyone's city is different,
but I can see probably a third of the Messier galaxies in my 70 mm
refractor on a good night from Santa Monica. I have to try pretty
darned hard on many of them, though.

--
Brian Tung
The Astronomy Corner at http://astro.isi.edu/
Unofficial C5+ Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/c5plus/
The PleiadAtlas Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/pleiadatlas/
My Own Personal FAQ (SAA) at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.html
(Location of these pages soon to change. Stay tuned for updates.)
  #3  
Old March 9th 06, 12:22 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
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Default Recommendation request: /= $200

Quoth Brian Tung:
: Scoop wrote:
: 1. One article (Sky and Telescope's '05 Buyer's Guide) suggests that any
: finderscope less than 6x30 is a waste of cash. True or false?

: Well, that depends. (Just the sort of answer you wanted, right?)

Sure -- it's the sort of answer I usually give. ;-)

: See, in the first place, most 6x30 finders are internally stopped (that
: is, they have a washer-like thingie in them that baffles some of the light
: coming through) in order to limit the amount of spurious color, so that
: they act more like 6x24 finders--the image in them is dimmer than it would
: be if they were really 6x30. The same is true of the 5x24
: finders--they're also internally stopped. Fortunately, it's not too much
: trouble to take the washer out, if you're not too squeamish about opening
: the thing up.

Good to know. Do they unscrew, or is it a matter of finding the right
solvent?

: Secondly, if you have really dark skies, the 5x24 finders will do all
: right.

I live in Sonoma, so the skies are actually pretty dark most of the time
even from the backyard.

: 2. Two different vendor websites say that an 80mm refractor either will
: or won't show galaxies and/or nebulae. Come again? I don't expect to see
: dust lanes with an 80mm refractor; OTOH, my wife would really like to be
: able to see M84 even without the colors. ;-)

: From a dark site, an 80 mm refractor will show all the Messier objects,
: and many others, if they're well placed that night. Some of them will
: even look pretty nice. M84 will probably look mostly like a faint
: cotton blob. What they won't show is anything like the level of detail
: you can see even in black-and-white photos.

Oh, I figured that -- I just want it to be a /bigger/ blob than the binocs
show. ;-) And having just found out about Messier Marathons, your advice is
especially well-taken.

Thanks!

Scoop
  #4  
Old March 9th 06, 12:33 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
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Default Recommendation request: /= $200

On 08 Mar 2006 22:27:33 GMT, Scoop wrote:

Partly inspired by the excellent film "My Date With Drew," my wife and I had
resolved to buy a telescope with whatever windfall might come our way. Now
it has; a small sum ($200), but enough to purchase something more powerful
than the 8x50 binocs we currently own. (We live just north of San Francisco,
so rather than pay shipping I'll take a day off and visit Scope City --
unless someone has a better visitational recommendation).

As a former amateur astronomer (20+ years ago), I've been doing a ton of
online/magazine research and am amazed at what's now available, and for
versatility's sake will likely go with an 80mm refractor (Celestron or
Konusmotor) on an EQ mount so as to combine terrestrial/planetary
observation with hints of DSOs, but could really use a bit of specific
input:

1. One article (Sky and Telescope's '05 Buyer's Guide) suggests that any
finderscope less than 6x30 is a waste of cash. True or false?


Lots of people have used a 5 x 24 (I think that is the size) coupled with a
60mm refractor for years and have been happy. It is all about
expectations.


2. Two different vendor websites say that an 80mm refractor either will or
won't show galaxies and/or nebulae. Come again?


That is not true. Furthermore, the binoculars in your possession will do
quite nicely for several of the brighter nebula (and your bare eyes for at
least one). Additionally, three galaxies come to mind which should present
themselves in the binoculars.




--
Martin R. Howell
"The Astro Post"
www.theastropost.com
  #5  
Old March 9th 06, 01:58 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
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Default Recommendation request: /= $200

Scoop wrote:
Good to know. Do they unscrew, or is it a matter of finding the right
solvent?


Typically, they unscrew. It shouldn't be too hard to find the washer
and remove it. You can also muck around with the cross-hairs this way;
they should reside at the focal plane of the finder's objective.

--
Brian Tung
The Astronomy Corner at http://astro.isi.edu/
Unofficial C5+ Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/c5plus/
The PleiadAtlas Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/pleiadatlas/
My Own Personal FAQ (SAA) at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.html
(Location of these pages soon to change. Stay tuned for updates.)
  #6  
Old March 9th 06, 03:19 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
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Default Recommendation request: /= $200

Before going to the store, Please Read Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord and you'll know even more and be ready to
get a scope.


--

The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond
Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord
Sidewalk Astronomy
www.sidewalkastronomy.info
Astronomy Net Online Gift Shop
http://www.cafepress.com/astronomy_net
In Garden Online Gift Shop
http://www.cafepress.com/ingarden
Blast Off Online Gift Shop
http://www.cafepress.com/starlords




"Scoop" wrote in message
...
Partly inspired by the excellent film "My Date With Drew," my wife and I
had
resolved to buy a telescope with whatever windfall might come our way. Now
it has; a small sum ($200), but enough to purchase something more powerful
than the 8x50 binocs we currently own. (We live just north of San
Francisco,
so rather than pay shipping I'll take a day off and visit Scope City --
unless someone has a better visitational recommendation).

As a former amateur astronomer (20+ years ago), I've been doing a ton of
online/magazine research and am amazed at what's now available, and for
versatility's sake will likely go with an 80mm refractor (Celestron or
Konusmotor) on an EQ mount so as to combine terrestrial/planetary
observation with hints of DSOs, but could really use a bit of specific
input:

1. One article (Sky and Telescope's '05 Buyer's Guide) suggests that any
finderscope less than 6x30 is a waste of cash. True or false?

2. Two different vendor websites say that an 80mm refractor either will or
won't show galaxies and/or nebulae. Come again? I don't expect to see dust
lanes with an 80mm refractor; OTOH, my wife would really like to be able
to
see M84 even without the colors. ;-)

TIA,

Scoop



  #7  
Old March 9th 06, 04:34 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
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Posts: n/a
Default Recommendation request: /= $200

Scoop wrote:
Partly inspired by the excellent film "My Date With Drew," my wife and I had
resolved to buy a telescope with whatever windfall might come our way. Now
it has; a small sum ($200), but enough to purchase something more powerful
than the 8x50 binocs we currently own. (We live just north of San Francisco,
so rather than pay shipping I'll take a day off and visit Scope City --
unless someone has a better visitational recommendation).


I know you're looking at an 80 refractor, but if I were you I'd get in
touch with the guy on astromart selling this:

http://www.astromart.com/classifieds...fied_id=413874

It's an 8" coulter dob. The 80mm will have almost no "wow" effect on
anything but the moon and a few of the very brightest nebulae. The 8"
will show a lot of stuff - saturn and jupiter in detail, dust lanes on a
few of the brighter galaxies, globular clusters like M13 will look
super. The only drawback of this scope is if you need to move it around
in a car frequently, and you say you have dark skies in your backyard,
so no problem.

Astromart is a terrific place to get deals if you're on a budget. The
person selling this one is not rated yet, but he lives in San Jose. You
can drive down and have a look through it, and if you like what you see
snap it up for no shipping costs. And if he's already sold it, just keep
your eyes open for a 6 or 8 inch telescope. They come along pretty
frequently on astromart and are well within your price range.

I have a couple of small refractors - an 80mm f/11 and a 100mm f/5.
They're nice for their portability and quick cool down time, and since I
know what I'm looking at and have experience observing I can get a lot
out of them. But the views hardly compare to my 6" or 8" reflectors or
my 8" SCT. Do yourself and your wife a favor - get something nice that
won't leave you disappointed and wondering why you plunked down money
for something that doesn't show you much. More people leave this hobby
through initial disappointment than for any other reason. Go a little
bigger and you'll definitely be glad you did.

Clear, dark skies and best of luck, and welcome-
Chris
  #8  
Old March 9th 06, 01:14 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
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Default Recommendation request: /= $200

Brian Tung wrote:

Under dark skies, it might be different; a 5x24 finder has
a wider field of view [than a 6x30 finder], so you might actually be able
to see more of what you need to in order to identify your target.


Unfortunately -- and amazingly -- that bit about the wider FOV isn't
true.
In the Dec '05 S&T Test Report, Gary Seronik estimated the true FOV
of the 5x24 finderscopes he saw as 4.5 degrees. The 6x finderscopes
on the reviewed scopes, by contrast, have TFOVs ranging from 6 to 8
degrees. So not only do you get less aperture and drastically
reduced optical quality (a singlet objective instead of an achromat),
you also get a dramatically reduced field of view. And all to save
a few dollars.

- Tony Flanders

  #9  
Old March 9th 06, 04:58 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
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Default Recommendation request: /= $200

Tony Flanders wrote:
Unfortunately -- and amazingly -- that bit about the wider FOV isn't
true.

In the Dec '05 S&T Test Report, Gary Seronik estimated the true FOV
of the 5x24 finderscopes he saw as 4.5 degrees. The 6x finderscopes
on the reviewed scopes, by contrast, have TFOVs ranging from 6 to 8
degrees. So not only do you get less aperture and drastically
reduced optical quality (a singlet objective instead of an achromat),
you also get a dramatically reduced field of view. And all to save
a few dollars.


Really?! That is amazingly short-sighted (and narrow-fielded, too!).

--
Brian Tung
The Astronomy Corner at http://astro.isi.edu/
Unofficial C5+ Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/c5plus/
The PleiadAtlas Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/pleiadatlas/
My Own Personal FAQ (SAA) at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.html
(Location of these pages soon to change. Stay tuned for updates.)
  #10  
Old March 9th 06, 05:06 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
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Default Recommendation request: /= $200


Scoop wrote:
Partly inspired by the excellent film "My Date With Drew," my wife and I had
resolved to buy a telescope with whatever windfall might come our way. Now
it has; a small sum ($200),


Hi:

Here's my recommendation...cheap, but capable of showing you the basic
wonders of the sky (perhaps supplemented by an inexpensive barlow lens
for planetary use). This little scope leaves my (beloved) 80mm f/5 in
the dust on...anything.

http://www.telescope.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=4644&itemType=PRODUCT&RS=1&k eyword=

Peace,
Rod Mollise

 




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