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Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 3rd 17, 01:31 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.physics,rec.arts.sf.science,sci.electronics.design
Robert Clark[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 237
Default Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.

An article from 2015:

3-D-printed car could hit streets next year. Chris Woodyard, USA TODAY 4:48
p.m. EST November 12, 2015
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...swim/75530830/

Several companies have come out with what they call "3D-printed" cars, but
none have 3D-printed the most important part, the engine.

This would be difficult to do with an internal combustion engine, with its
high temperatures, multiple moving parts, and high tolerances.

But it shouldn't be too difficult with an electric engine. In fact
considering there are now miniature 3D-printers on the market for the home,
an amateur could be the first to produce an entire, scale-size, 3D-printed
car.
And then it could be scaled up to produce a full-size, working, fully
3D-printed automobile.

This would revolutionize the industry, obviously.

The two most difficult parts would be the engine and the transmission.

This video shows how you can make your own simple electric motor:

How to Make an Electric Motor at Home - YouTube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0p2QTE26VOA

Looking at the steps in the video, it appears they could all be accomplished
by 3D-printing.


Bob Clark

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Finally, nanotechnology can now fulfill its potential to revolutionize
21st-century technology, from the space elevator, to private, orbital
launchers, to 'flying cars'.
This crowdfunding campaign is to prove it:

Nanotech: from air to space.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/n...ce/x/13319568/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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  #2  
Old July 3rd 17, 02:04 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.physics,rec.arts.sf.science,sci.electronics.design
bitrex
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.

On 07/03/2017 08:31 AM, Robert Clark wrote:

But it shouldn't be too difficult with an electric engine. In fact
considering there are now miniature 3D-printers on the market for the
home, an amateur could be the first to produce an entire, scale-size,
3D-printed car.
And then it could be scaled up to produce a full-size, working, fully
3D-printed automobile.


For a hobbyist trying to design/build their own electric vehicle
acquiring or fabricating the chassis is literally the least difficult
part of the job. Why would you want to make it _more_ difficult

This video shows how you can make your own simple electric motor:

How to Make an Electric Motor at Home - YouTube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0p2QTE26VOA


Why bother, it's not like high performance electric motors are rare.

Looking at the steps in the video, it appears they could all be
accomplished by 3D-printing.


Insisting that every part of a homebrew EV also be 3D printed at home
from one's personal 3D printer is a tits-on-a-bull project for turbodorks.

  #3  
Old July 3rd 17, 06:04 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.physics,rec.arts.sf.science,sci.electronics.design
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,346
Default Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.

In sci.physics Robert Clark wrote:
An article from 2015:

3-D-printed car could hit streets next year. Chris Woodyard, USA TODAY 4:48
p.m. EST November 12, 2015
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...swim/75530830/

Several companies have come out with what they call "3D-printed" cars, but
none have 3D-printed the most important part, the engine.

This would be difficult to do with an internal combustion engine, with its
high temperatures, multiple moving parts, and high tolerances.

But it shouldn't be too difficult with an electric engine. In fact
considering there are now miniature 3D-printers on the market for the home,
an amateur could be the first to produce an entire, scale-size, 3D-printed
car.
And then it could be scaled up to produce a full-size, working, fully
3D-printed automobile.

This would revolutionize the industry, obviously.

The two most difficult parts would be the engine and the transmission.

This video shows how you can make your own simple electric motor:

How to Make an Electric Motor at Home - YouTube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0p2QTE26VOA

Looking at the steps in the video, it appears they could all be accomplished
by 3D-printing.


Bob Clark

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Finally, nanotechnology can now fulfill its potential to revolutionize
21st-century technology, from the space elevator, to private, orbital
launchers, to 'flying cars'.
This crowdfunding campaign is to prove it:

Nanotech: from air to space.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/n...ce/x/13319568/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Arm waving nonsense.

You need multiple 3D printers if you need to print with multiple materials.

Consumer 3D printers print small parts from cheap plastic and cost hundreds
of dollars.

Industrial 3D printers that print large parts with metals cost hundreds of
thousands of dollars and the printing material costs more than raw metal
stock.

3D printing is advantageous for parts with complex shapes that are difficult
or impossible to make with other techniques but is disadvantageous for
most parts that ARE manufacturable with conventional techniques as they
can be made faster and cheaper.

3D printing makes PARTS that still need to be assembled.

3D printing an electric motor is just silly.



--
Jim Pennino
  #4  
Old July 3rd 17, 07:04 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.physics,rec.arts.sf.science,sci.electronics.design
Jeff Findley[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,398
Default Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.

In article ,
says...
Arm waving nonsense.

You need multiple 3D printers if you need to print with multiple materials.

Consumer 3D printers print small parts from cheap plastic and cost hundreds
of dollars.

Industrial 3D printers that print large parts with metals cost hundreds of
thousands of dollars and the printing material costs more than raw metal
stock.

3D printing is advantageous for parts with complex shapes that are difficult
or impossible to make with other techniques but is disadvantageous for
most parts that ARE manufacturable with conventional techniques as they
can be made faster and cheaper.

3D printing makes PARTS that still need to be assembled.

3D printing an electric motor is just silly.


I'm generally in agreement with all of the above. That motor which was
3D printed is a toy. That toy motor is far simpler than a stepper
motor, so any thought of 3D printers printing other 3D printers is just
a fantasy at this point.

Today's "state of the art" of 3D printing does not make it a panacea for
manufacturing. Furthermore, 3D printing with locally produced (non-
earth) materials is decades away.

But progress is being made in the field. GE is working on producing a
3D printer capable of printing 1 meter x 1 meter x 1 meter parts. This
is coming from its aircraft engine division. 3D printing is a very hot
topic these days.

Jeff
--
All opinions posted by me on Usenet News are mine, and mine alone.
These posts do not reflect the opinions of my family, friends,
employer, or any organization that I am a member of.
  #5  
Old July 3rd 17, 07:28 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.physics,rec.arts.sf.science,sci.electronics.design
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,346
Default Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.

In sci.physics Jeff Findley wrote:
In article ,
says...
Arm waving nonsense.

You need multiple 3D printers if you need to print with multiple materials.

Consumer 3D printers print small parts from cheap plastic and cost hundreds
of dollars.

Industrial 3D printers that print large parts with metals cost hundreds of
thousands of dollars and the printing material costs more than raw metal
stock.

3D printing is advantageous for parts with complex shapes that are difficult
or impossible to make with other techniques but is disadvantageous for
most parts that ARE manufacturable with conventional techniques as they
can be made faster and cheaper.

3D printing makes PARTS that still need to be assembled.

3D printing an electric motor is just silly.


I'm generally in agreement with all of the above. That motor which was
3D printed is a toy. That toy motor is far simpler than a stepper
motor, so any thought of 3D printers printing other 3D printers is just
a fantasy at this point.

Today's "state of the art" of 3D printing does not make it a panacea for
manufacturing. Furthermore, 3D printing with locally produced (non-
earth) materials is decades away.


3D printing requires special raw stock manufactured just for 3D printing
no matter what the print material is.

3D printing is slow and expensive compared to any other method of making
parts so only become economical if the part in question is so complex that
3D printing it is cheaper than any other method.

The cost and speed of 3D printing will obviously never match that of
stamping out sheet metal, casting, or NC machining.

But progress is being made in the field. GE is working on producing a
3D printer capable of printing 1 meter x 1 meter x 1 meter parts. This
is coming from its aircraft engine division. 3D printing is a very hot
topic these days.


Yes, for very complex parts that would otherwise have to be made in
pieces then somehow assempled.


Jeff


--
Jim Pennino
  #6  
Old July 3rd 17, 09:14 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.physics,rec.arts.sf.science,sci.electronics.design
Jeff Findley[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,398
Default Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.

In article ,
says...
3D printing requires special raw stock manufactured just for 3D printing
no matter what the print material is.

3D printing is slow and expensive compared to any other method of making
parts so only become economical if the part in question is so complex that
3D printing it is cheaper than any other method.


Actually if the 3D printed part replaces many other parts (e.g.
SuperDraco engines) then it's faster to print than it is to manufacture
and assemble all those other parts. But that does fall under your "so
complex" exception because in that case it is cheaper to print than try
to use other manufacturing techniques.

In aerospace, think things like liquid fueled rocket engine combustion
chambers with lots of tiny internal cooling passages. Those are a
p.i.t.a. to make using conventional manufacturing techniques, but a
breeze to 3D print.

The cost and speed of 3D printing will obviously never match that of
stamping out sheet metal, casting, or NC machining.


For "trivial" parts, that is true. I installed a new garage door at
home a few weeks ago. Lots of stamped sheet metal parts there, even the
hinges.

But progress is being made in the field. GE is working on producing a
3D printer capable of printing 1 meter x 1 meter x 1 meter parts. This
is coming from its aircraft engine division. 3D printing is a very hot
topic these days.


Yes, for very complex parts that would otherwise have to be made in
pieces then somehow assempled.


Exactly.

Also, the other option that 3D printing opens up is more shape optimized
parts. These things are optimized so that "useless" mass is simply gone
from the design. They tend to look "organic" rather than "machined" due
to their complex shapes. I've heard this called "light-weighting" parts
from management types.

Jeff
--
All opinions posted by me on Usenet News are mine, and mine alone.
These posts do not reflect the opinions of my family, friends,
employer, or any organization that I am a member of.
  #7  
Old July 3rd 17, 09:57 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.physics,rec.arts.sf.science,sci.electronics.design
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,346
Default Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.

In sci.physics Jeff Findley wrote:
In article ,
says...
3D printing requires special raw stock manufactured just for 3D printing
no matter what the print material is.

3D printing is slow and expensive compared to any other method of making
parts so only become economical if the part in question is so complex that
3D printing it is cheaper than any other method.


Actually if the 3D printed part replaces many other parts (e.g.
SuperDraco engines) then it's faster to print than it is to manufacture
and assemble all those other parts. But that does fall under your "so
complex" exception because in that case it is cheaper to print than try
to use other manufacturing techniques.

In aerospace, think things like liquid fueled rocket engine combustion
chambers with lots of tiny internal cooling passages. Those are a
p.i.t.a. to make using conventional manufacturing techniques, but a
breeze to 3D print.


And the total market for such things is a tiny fraction of all things
manufactured, or even of all 4 slice toasters manufactured.

The cost and speed of 3D printing will obviously never match that of
stamping out sheet metal, casting, or NC machining.


For "trivial" parts, that is true. I installed a new garage door at
home a few weeks ago. Lots of stamped sheet metal parts there, even the
hinges.


My estimate is that for all things manufactured parts that can be made
cheaper and faster by conventional means amount to about 99.99%.

But progress is being made in the field. GE is working on producing a
3D printer capable of printing 1 meter x 1 meter x 1 meter parts. This
is coming from its aircraft engine division. 3D printing is a very hot
topic these days.


Yes, for very complex parts that would otherwise have to be made in
pieces then somehow assempled.


Exactly.

Also, the other option that 3D printing opens up is more shape optimized
parts. These things are optimized so that "useless" mass is simply gone
from the design. They tend to look "organic" rather than "machined" due
to their complex shapes. I've heard this called "light-weighting" parts
from management types.


And about the only place where weight matters that much is in things
that fly and in that case useless mass is already gone from the design
without the expense of 3D printing.

Have you ever looked at the interior structures of an aircraft?

3D printing is, and always will be, a niche manufacturing method.

Handy at times, but certainly not a world changer.


Jeff


--
Jim Pennino
  #10  
Old July 4th 17, 03:35 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.physics,rec.arts.sf.science,sci.electronics.design
Robert Baer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11
Default Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.

Robert Clark wrote:
An article from 2015:

3-D-printed car could hit streets next year. Chris Woodyard, USA TODAY
4:48 p.m. EST November 12, 2015
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...swim/75530830/


Several companies have come out with what they call "3D-printed" cars,
but none have 3D-printed the most important part, the engine.

This would be difficult to do with an internal combustion engine, with
its high temperatures, multiple moving parts, and high tolerances.

But it shouldn't be too difficult with an electric engine. In fact
considering there are now miniature 3D-printers on the market for the
home, an amateur could be the first to produce an entire, scale-size,
3D-printed car.
And then it could be scaled up to produce a full-size, working, fully
3D-printed automobile.

This would revolutionize the industry, obviously.

The two most difficult parts would be the engine and the transmission.

* Transmission not needed; look at the Tesla.


This video shows how you can make your own simple electric motor:

How to Make an Electric Motor at Home - YouTube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0p2QTE26VOA

Looking at the steps in the video, it appears they could all be
accomplished by 3D-printing.

* GACK! A DC motor with commutator! How gross.
The working part of the engine should be exactly like the armature
in the Tesla car: design is same as armature in an AC shaded pole fan motor.
That design would not be too difficult for a 3Dprinter.



Bob Clark



 




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