Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?

Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Mon, 9 Oct 2017 15:12:33 -0000 (UTC), Mike Collins
wrote:

Oil isn’t necessary for plastics it’s just a convenient feedstock. Sugars
can do the job. Also coal.
In fact the coal can supply the CO2 needed to male plastics using sugar.

Using oil for plastics isn't much of a problem, in any case, since
plastic sequesters fossil carbon, it doesn't release it into the
atmosphere. The problems with plastic are with the material itself,
regardless of the source feedstock.


That dependent on the plastic. Biodegradable polycarbonate has been made
from sugar and CO2.

On Mon, 9 Oct 2017 15:47:10 -0000 (UTC), Mike Collins
wrote:

Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Mon, 9 Oct 2017 15:12:33 -0000 (UTC), Mike Collins
wrote:

Oil isn’t necessary for plastics it’s just a convenient feedstock. Sugars
can do the job. Also coal.
In fact the coal can supply the CO2 needed to male plastics using sugar.

Using oil for plastics isn't much of a problem, in any case, since
plastic sequesters fossil carbon, it doesn't release it into the
atmosphere. The problems with plastic are with the material itself,
regardless of the source feedstock.


That dependent on the plastic. Biodegradable polycarbonate has been made
from sugar and CO2.

Certainly. As people become more aware of the huge environmental
problem being created by conventional hydrocarbon polymers, I'm sure
we'll see a continued growth of much better materials (especially for
single-use applications).

On Monday, October 9, 2017 at 8:12:34 AM UTC-7, Mike Collins wrote:

On Sunday, October 8, 2017 at 11:12:19 PM UTC-7, Chris.B wrote:
On Sunday, 8 October 2017 16:23:03 UTC+2, Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Sat, 7 Oct 2017 20:31:08 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Saturday, October 7, 2017 at 4:28:21 AM UTC-4, Chris.B wrote:
On Saturday, 7 October 2017 05:37:29 UTC+2, RichA wrote:
Divide 150,000km into your driving. Now factor in the $14,000 the
battery of a Volt or Leaf costs. Still cheaper than a gasoline car,
which can easily hit 250,000km before needing a $3500 engine rebuild.

A new battery chemistry is in the offing.
With very rapid recharging but still limited lifespan.
But doubling in range at frequent intervals.
The holy grail and Achilles heel for electric vehicles is STILL the battery.

The rest is just familiar engineering.
With an overt emphasis on styling at the expense of efficiency and safety.
And, with enough built in obsolescence to maintain a hungry annual market.
They already know how to build cars badly.
Because they've been doing it perfectly for the last century.

The only way an electric car would be cheaper is if they keep using
taxpayer money to subsidize charging.

Taxpayer money currently subsidizes all fossil fuels, and to a much
larger degree than electric cars.

There is no doubt that electric cars will replace internal combustion
cars in the near future. That is a societally beneficial transition,
and therefore it is reasonable for public money to be used to speed up
this transition- and subsidies are one way that is done.

Oil-powered vehicles have a wide range of side effects which we often
take for granted simply through long familiarity:
Air pollution leading to millions of deaths worldwide annually directly
through oil caused disease.
Noise pollution which undermines the quality of life over much of the world.
A single, "normal" vehicle at cruising speed can be heard over a mile
away in a quiet rural setting.
How far away can a billion vehicles be heard?
Could alien life look for oil in our spectrum as a marker for a backward
race, which can be easily conquered?
The sound of the engine is often a driver for psychotic driving
behaviour in the vulnerable.
As hinted elsewhere, there is the unbelievably vast annual cost in
defense of the indefensible.
Oil fuels conflict, terrorism and corruption right around the globe.
It empowers corrupt and backward dictatorships to wield infinitely more
power than their impoverished citizens would normally enjoy.
No oil= No Islamic fundamentalism and probably no Islam in the newspapers.
Islam would probably not have survived without massive oil subsidy by
corrupt despots in glittering palaces in untamed deserts.

Oil is the dying elephant in the shrinking room which we call home.
And it already stinks to high heaven!

It'll be around for a while, at least in your life time.
Even if the globe switch to electric cars, plastics still needs oil and
for many other things , like shopping bags!
Jobs, paper or plastic, please?


Oil isn’t necessary for plastics it’s just a convenient feedstock. Sugars
can do the job. Also coal.
In fact the coal can supply the CO2 needed to male plastics using sugar.

I see, so expensive sugar will be used to make plastic?

On Monday, October 9, 2017 at 8:47:11 AM UTC-7, Mike Collins wrote:


Oil isn’t necessary for plastics it’s just a convenient feedstock. Sugars
can do the job. Also coal.
In fact the coal can supply the CO2 needed to male plastics using sugar.

On Monday, 9 October 2017 19:55:29 UTC+2, StarDust wrote:
On Monday, October 9, 2017 at 8:47:11 AM UTC-7, Mike Collins wrote:

That [is] dependent on the plastic. Biodegradable polycarbonate has been made
from sugar and CO2.

What's the cost of using sugar /co2, instead oil?

Infinite if you don't take sugar.
What a dilemma! ;-)

On Tuesday, October 10, 2017 at 4:42:01 AM UTC-7, Chris.B wrote:
On Monday, 9 October 2017 19:55:29 UTC+2, StarDust wrote:
On Monday, October 9, 2017 at 8:47:11 AM UTC-7, Mike Collins wrote:

That [is] dependent on the plastic. Biodegradable polycarbonate has been made
from sugar and CO2.

What's the cost of using sugar /co2, instead oil?

Infinite if you don't take sugar.
What a dilemma! ;-)

Ja of course, forgot, high fructose corn syrup.
That's the key, even cars get cancer from it! LOL!

On Tuesday, 10 October 2017 20:21:25 UTC+2, StarDust wrote:
On Tuesday, October 10, 2017 at 4:42:01 AM UTC-7, Chris.B wrote:
On Monday, 9 October 2017 19:55:29 UTC+2, StarDust wrote:
On Monday, October 9, 2017 at 8:47:11 AM UTC-7, Mike Collins wrote:

That [is] dependent on the plastic. Biodegradable polycarbonate has been made
from sugar and CO2.

What's the cost of using sugar /co2, instead oil?

Infinite if you don't take sugar.
What a dilemma! ;-)

Ja of course, forgot, high fructose corn syrup.
That's the key, even cars get cancer from it! LOL!

Dy'all think VW should have to paint all its shiny head badges black?
Out of respect to all the extra funerals their crooked circuitry caused?
VW = Voluntarily Wasteful [of human lives] but too big to be allowed to fail. :-(
Mind you, their rust buckets probably kept death off the roads to some extent.
By denying the truly impoverished a car which could just scrape through the regular vehicle safety checks.

On Wednesday, October 11, 2017 at 12:40:47 AM UTC-7, Chris.B wrote:
On Tuesday, 10 October 2017 20:21:25 UTC+2, StarDust wrote:
On Tuesday, October 10, 2017 at 4:42:01 AM UTC-7, Chris.B wrote:
On Monday, 9 October 2017 19:55:29 UTC+2, StarDust wrote:
On Monday, October 9, 2017 at 8:47:11 AM UTC-7, Mike Collins wrote:

That [is] dependent on the plastic. Biodegradable polycarbonate has been made
from sugar and CO2.

What's the cost of using sugar /co2, instead oil?

Infinite if you don't take sugar.
What a dilemma! ;-)

Ja of course, forgot, high fructose corn syrup.
That's the key, even cars get cancer from it! LOL!

Dy'all think VW should have to paint all its shiny head badges black?
Out of respect to all the extra funerals their crooked circuitry caused?
VW = Voluntarily Wasteful [of human lives] but too big to be allowed to fail. :-(
Mind you, their rust buckets probably kept death off the roads to some extent.
By denying the truly impoverished a car which could just scrape through the regular vehicle safety checks.

Some likes VW's!
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/92/fb/0a/9...t-bus-vw-t.jpg

On Wednesday, 11 October 2017 10:00:23 UTC+2, StarDust wrote:

Some likes VW's!
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/92/fb/0a/9...t-bus-vw-t.jpg

She probably smokes like a VW diesel out of the sight of the camera!
I can't tell, at first glance, whether that is a nicotine stain, or a tan. ;-)

When will electrics pay a road tax for maintenance and construction, or will all roads be toll roads?