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orbital elements



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 24th 09, 01:03 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
U. N. McGregor
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Posts: 8
Default orbital elements

Where can I find concise directions on how to determine orbital elements.
All I ever see on the internet is description about what they are and mean
but never the way to actually do that type of calculation.


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  #2  
Old February 24th 09, 01:15 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Greg Neill[_6_]
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Posts: 605
Default orbital elements

U. N. McGregor wrote:
Where can I find concise directions on how to determine orbital elements.
All I ever see on the internet is description about what they are and mean
but never the way to actually do that type of calculation.


See if you can get hold of a copy of Fundamentals of Astrodynamics
by Bate, Mueller, and White. $12.89 at amazon -- a good deal for
an excellent book. Lot's of examples and exercises.

http://www.amazon.com/Fundamentals-A.../dp/0486600610




  #3  
Old February 24th 09, 01:31 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Llanzlan Klazmon[_2_]
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Posts: 64
Default orbital elements

On Feb 24, 1:03*pm, "U. N. McGregor" wrote:
Where can I find concise directions on how to determine orbital elements.
All I ever see on the internet is description about what they are and mean
but never the way to actually do that type of calculation.


http://www.projectpluto.com/find_orb.htm#gauss

  #4  
Old February 24th 09, 03:07 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
U. N. McGregor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default orbital elements


"Greg Neill" wrote in message
m...
U. N. McGregor wrote:
Where can I find concise directions on how to determine orbital elements.
All I ever see on the internet is description about what they are and
mean
but never the way to actually do that type of calculation.


See if you can get hold of a copy of Fundamentals of Astrodynamics
by Bate, Mueller, and White. $12.89 at amazon -- a good deal for
an excellent book. Lot's of examples and exercises.

http://www.amazon.com/Fundamentals-A.../dp/0486600610



How difficult is it to read this and understand it? Is it written for
engineers and scientists etc.?
Remember , I am an amateur with limited math skills.


  #5  
Old February 24th 09, 03:13 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
U. N. McGregor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default orbital elements

Ahh..thanks but uh uh..look at the this
http://books.google.ca/books?id=g7Yq...=4&ct=r esult


Where can I find concise directions on how to determine orbital
elements.
All I ever see on the internet is description about what they are and
mean
but never the way to actually do that type of calculation.


See if you can get hold of a copy of Fundamentals of Astrodynamics
by Bate, Mueller, and White. $12.89 at amazon -- a good deal for
an excellent book. Lot's of examples and exercises.

http://www.amazon.com/Fundamentals-A.../dp/0486600610




  #6  
Old February 24th 09, 04:30 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Golden California Girls
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 210
Default orbital elements

U. N. McGregor wrote:
"Greg Neill" wrote in message
m...
U. N. McGregor wrote:
Where can I find concise directions on how to determine orbital elements.
All I ever see on the internet is description about what they are and
mean
but never the way to actually do that type of calculation.

See if you can get hold of a copy of Fundamentals of Astrodynamics
by Bate, Mueller, and White. $12.89 at amazon -- a good deal for
an excellent book. Lot's of examples and exercises.

http://www.amazon.com/Fundamentals-A.../dp/0486600610



How difficult is it to read this and understand it? Is it written for
engineers and scientists etc.?
Remember , I am an amateur with limited math skills.


It can't be calculated without calculus math skills.

  #7  
Old February 24th 09, 05:54 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris L Peterson
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Posts: 10,007
Default orbital elements

On Tue, 24 Feb 2009 03:30:14 GMT, Golden California Girls
wrote:

It can't be calculated without calculus math skills.


I do orbital analysis all the time, and I never use calculus. You only
need that if you want to derive the equations. Just determining orbital
elements from observations requires nothing more than vector algebra.
_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
  #8  
Old February 24th 09, 06:20 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Greg Neill[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 605
Default orbital elements

U. N. McGregor wrote:
"Greg Neill" wrote in message
m...
U. N. McGregor wrote:
Where can I find concise directions on how to determine orbital

elements.
All I ever see on the internet is description about what they are and
mean
but never the way to actually do that type of calculation.


See if you can get hold of a copy of Fundamentals of Astrodynamics
by Bate, Mueller, and White. $12.89 at amazon -- a good deal for
an excellent book. Lot's of examples and exercises.


http://www.amazon.com/Fundamentals-A.../dp/0486600610


How difficult is it to read this and understand it? Is it written for
engineers and scientists etc.?
Remember , I am an amateur with limited math skills.


The book is not over the top mathematically, but it does assume
a basic knowledge of vectors and some calculus. If you want to
see how to "do the calculations" and do them yourself you'll
have to have some knowledge of the tools.


  #9  
Old February 24th 09, 06:32 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Dave Typinski[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 778
Default orbital elements

Chris L Peterson wrote:

On Tue, 24 Feb 2009 03:30:14 GMT, Golden California Girls
wrote:

It can't be calculated without calculus math skills.


I do orbital analysis all the time, and I never use calculus. You only
need that if you want to derive the equations. Just determining orbital
elements from observations requires nothing more than vector algebra.


Here are two introductions to whet the OP's mathematical appetite. I
don't know whether the OP can do linear algebra, but the amount of
vector manipulation required is small and I'm sure the good people
here would be willing to help.

http://www3.ntu.edu.sg/home/enara/In...o%20Orbits.pdf

http://www.braeunig.us/space/orbmech.htm

--
Dave
  #10  
Old February 24th 09, 10:04 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Martin Brown
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Posts: 1,707
Default orbital elements

U. N. McGregor wrote:
Ahh..thanks but uh uh..look at the this
http://books.google.ca/books?id=g7Yq...=4&ct=r esult

Unfortunately it stops just after Chapter 5 where Gauss's method of
orbit determination using the so called f and g series starts to get
going. A Google search or on ADS with the "F and g Gauss orbit
determination" might get something. p227 & p228 are what you want to
read but it stops dead just are the tale starts to get interesting.

If you want to do your own orbit determinations rather than derive the
equations from scratch then take a look at Project Plutos FindOrb.

I am afraid you are not going to make much headway understanding how it
works without a fairly deep grounding in differential calculus. The
method exploits the known conservation laws of energy and momentum and F
= ma to constrain the orbit of an object observed at a series of times
and locations on the sky but at an unknown distance from the sun.

Where can I find concise directions on how to determine orbital
elements.
All I ever see on the internet is description about what they are and
mean
but never the way to actually do that type of calculation.


See if you can get hold of a copy of Fundamentals of Astrodynamics
by Bate, Mueller, and White. $12.89 at amazon -- a good deal for
an excellent book. Lot's of examples and exercises.

http://www.amazon.com/Fundamentals-A.../dp/0486600610


I can't think offhand of any book that deals with how to do this that
isn't very mathematical (ie. assuming degree level calculus in the
derivation of the formulae).

There are one or two popular books that show how to program the
resulting expressions and determine orbits (see in Project Pluto).

Regards,
Martin Brown
 




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