How Much Longer Can SRians Ignore Their Fundamental Error.

On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 16:28:18 +0200, "Paul B. Andersen"
wrote:

"Henri Wilson" h@.. skrev i melding ...
On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:05:24 GMT, The Ghost In The Machine
wrote:

In sci.physics.relativity, Paul B. Andersen

| / | Of course. The free fall corection is incorporated beforehand and the clocks
| / | are all subsequently kept in close synch empirically.
| /
| / Of course indeed. Each individual satellite is subsequently kept
| / in synch with the ground clocks, there is thus obviously no way
| / they can be in synch with each other and NOT be in synch
| / with the ground clocks.
|
| Don't misrepresent me Paul. Obviously the synching of teh orbiting clocks must
| be done from the ground and that entails having the ground clock rates in synch
| with the orbiting clocks.

What Henri knew a year ago he has now forgotten.
That's Henri in a nutshell.

You are blabbing again, in pure desperation. Your faith is waning.


Paul



Henri Wilson.
www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/index.htm

See proof that light speed is source dependent.
www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/variablestars.exe

On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 15:05:58 +0200, "Paul B. Andersen"
wrote:


"Henri Wilson" h@.. skrev i melding ...
On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:05:26 GMT, The Ghost In The Machine
wrote:

In sci.physics.relativity, Henri Wilson

the clocks are corrected empirically several times per orbit
anyway.

Sneaking in a lie again, Henri?
How often are the correctional data uploaded to
each satellite, Henri?
Are the satellites updated simultaneously, Henri?
By how much can a satellite be allowed to be off synch, Henri?
If they were not GR corrected, would they stay in synch
within this limit, Henri?
Don't you know, Henri?

Considering that you pride yourself of having taught me all I
know about the GPS, how come I know the answer to all
these questions, and you do not?

So the 'GR correction' is really a bit of a joke.

But would the GPS work without this joke, Henri?
You DO know the answer, don't you Henri?
But you won't tell, will you Henri?

Paul


Paul, you are raving.

I know as well as you do that the free fall correction is built into the clocks
before launch for good reason.

I know as well as you do that individual clock drift has to be corrected as
regularly as practical. Just how that is done is probably kept secret.

I know as well as you do that so long as the orbiting clocks are in close
synch, any diference between them and the ground clock will cause only a small
positioning error.

In other words, the only difference between my and your positions on this is
the choice of words.
You use the term "GR correction". I correctly refer to it as the "free fall"
correction.



Henri Wilson.
www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/index.htm

See proof that light speed is source dependent.
www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/variablestars.exe

"Henri Wilson" h@.. skrev i melding ...
On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 15:05:58 +0200, "Paul B. Andersen"
wrote:


"Henri Wilson" h@.. skrev i melding ...
On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:05:26 GMT, The Ghost In The Machine
wrote:

In sci.physics.relativity, Henri Wilson

the clocks are corrected empirically several times per orbit
anyway.

Sneaking in a lie again, Henri?
How often are the correctional data uploaded to
each satellite, Henri?
Are the satellites updated simultaneously, Henri?
By how much can a satellite be allowed to be off synch, Henri?
If they were not GR corrected, would they stay in synch
within this limit, Henri?
Don't you know, Henri?

Considering that you pride yourself of having taught me all I
know about the GPS, how come I know the answer to all
these questions, and you do not?

So the 'GR correction' is really a bit of a joke.

But would the GPS work without this joke, Henri?
You DO know the answer, don't you Henri?
But you won't tell, will you Henri?

Paul


Paul, you are raving.

I know as well as you do that the free fall correction is built into the clocks
before launch for good reason.

So you know that the GPS woulnd't work without it?

I know as well as you do that individual clock drift has to be corrected as
regularly as practical. Just how that is done is probably kept secret.

"Probably kept secret" so that you won't have to admit that you
deliberately lied when insisting that "the clocks are corrected empirically
several times per orbit anyway."

It is indeed no secret that correctional data is uploaded once a day.

I know as well as you do that so long as the orbiting clocks are in close
synch, any diference between them and the ground clock will cause only a small
positioning error.

But you will evade facing the point, Henry?
Which is that each individual clock must be in synch with the GPS time,
and that the situation that the clocks are in synch with each other and NOT
in synch with the GPS time is a bltant impossibiliy?

In other words, the only difference between my and your positions on this is
the choice of words.
You use the term "GR correction". I correctly refer to it as the "free fall"
correction.

Does that mean that we agree on the following statements:

Without 4.46*10^-10 correction which the designers used
GR to calculate, the GPS would not work.

The GPS thus prove that the correction predicted by GR is correct.

You can name the correction whatever you like, Henry.
That cannot change the fact: It was calculated by GR.

Paul

On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 23:32:21 +0200, "Paul B. Andersen"
wrote:


"Henri Wilson" h@.. skrev i melding ...
On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 15:05:58 +0200, "Paul B. Andersen"
wrote:




Paul, you are raving.

I know as well as you do that the free fall correction is built into the clocks
before launch for good reason.

So you know that the GPS woulnd't work without it?

It would work quite well without it but would have to be corrected continually.
That would amount to virtually the same thing as building in an offset before
launch.



I know as well as you do that individual clock drift has to be corrected as
regularly as practical. Just how that is done is probably kept secret.

"Probably kept secret" so that you won't have to admit that you
deliberately lied when insisting that "the clocks are corrected empirically
several times per orbit anyway."

It is indeed no secret that correctional data is uploaded once a day.

I know as well as you do that so long as the orbiting clocks are in close
synch, any diference between them and the ground clock will cause only a small
positioning error.

But you will evade facing the point, Henry?
Which is that each individual clock must be in synch with the GPS time,
and that the situation that the clocks are in synch with each other and NOT
in synch with the GPS time is a bltant impossibiliy?

They dont HAVE TO BE in synch with the ground clocks but it certainly helps.
So what?


In other words, the only difference between my and your positions on this is
the choice of words.
You use the term "GR correction". I correctly refer to it as the "free fall"
correction.

Does that mean that we agree on the following statements:

Without 4.46*10^-10 correction which the designers used
GR to calculate, the GPS would not work.

The GPS thus prove that the correction predicted by GR is correct.

Funny boy.
The system is fine tuned when in orbit.
That is a very simple software procedure.
There is NO GR correction.
A free fall correction is required due to the fact that the clocks are not
perfect.

Try using a pendulum clock, Paul.

On second thoughts, try using the period of Jupiter as the unit of time for
both orbiting and ground clocks.

Do you think the period of Jupiter changed when the GPS system was launched?

An even better idea might be to use the GPS satellite orbit as the unit of
time.


You can name the correction whatever you like, Henry.
That cannot change the fact: It was calculated by GR.

Not so, it includes a fictitious velocity component.
We all know tat clocks do not change physical rates when a force is applied for
a period and then removed.
Which direction do you think their rates would change, Paul?



Paul



Henri Wilson.
www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/index.htm

See proof that light speed is source dependent.
www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/variablestars.exe