Arago vs Vogel

I have found the two old measurements:
"In 1818 Arago found that the refraction of a prism for star light was the
same for light incident in the direction of the earth's orbital velocity vs.
as for that coming in the opposite direction. This unexpected null result
was explained that same year by Fresnel's ether-dray theory, which assumed
partial ether entrainment in transparent media by an amount depending upon
the first power of v." From: http://www.3rd1000.com/chronoatoms.htm

And:

2. Vogel, H. C., "On the spectrographic method of determining the velocity
of
stars in the line of sight", Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical
Society, Vol. 52, p.87, 1891
"The first result of any importance which the spectrographic method
furnished was the proof of the influence of the Earth's motion on the
displacement, which the earlier direct observations had failed to show
with certainity. [...]" From:
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1891MNRAS..52...87V

Who was right: Arago or Vogel?
S*

On 22/10/2011 07:50, Szczepan Bialek wrote:
I have found the two old measurements:
"In 1818 Arago found that the refraction of a prism for star light was the
same for light incident in the direction of the earth's orbital velocity vs.
as for that coming in the opposite direction. This unexpected null result
was explained that same year by Fresnel's ether-dray theory, which assumed
partial ether entrainment in transparent media by an amount depending upon
the first power of v." From: http://www.3rd1000.com/chronoatoms.htm

And:

2. Vogel, H. C., "On the spectrographic method of determining the velocity
of
stars in the line of sight", Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical
Society, Vol. 52, p.87, 1891
"The first result of any importance which the spectrographic method
furnished was the proof of the influence of the Earth's motion on the
displacement, which the earlier direct observations had failed to show
with certainity. [...]" From:
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1891MNRAS..52...87V

Who was right: Arago or Vogel?
S*

I would suggest they both were. Since starlight comprises a continuum
crossed by spectral lines, it's possible for the refraction of light
through the prism to be unchanged whilst the position of the spectral
lines varies against the continuum.

Uzytkownik "OG" napisal w wiadomosci
...
On 22/10/2011 07:50, Szczepan Bialek wrote:
I have found the two old measurements:
"In 1818 Arago found that the refraction of a prism for star light was
the
same for light incident in the direction of the earth's orbital velocity
vs.
as for that coming in the opposite direction. This unexpected null result
was explained that same year by Fresnel's ether-dray theory, which
assumed
partial ether entrainment in transparent media by an amount depending
upon
the first power of v." From: http://www.3rd1000.com/chronoatoms.htm

And:

2. Vogel, H. C., "On the spectrographic method of determining the
velocity
of
stars in the line of sight", Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical
Society, Vol. 52, p.87, 1891
"The first result of any importance which the spectrographic method
furnished was the proof of the influence of the Earth's motion on the
displacement, which the earlier direct observations had failed to show
with certainity. [...]" From:
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1891MNRAS..52...87V

Who was right: Arago or Vogel?
S*

I would suggest they both were. Since starlight comprises a continuum
crossed by spectral lines, it's possible for the refraction of light
through the prism to be unchanged whilst the position of the spectral
lines varies against the continuum.

It is known that the spectroscopic methods and the spectrographic methods
are not accurate.

But now are the spacecrafts like Voyager and Pionier. They transmit the
single frequency. So it is easy to detect any changes in frequency (The
diurinal and annual).
Are the result known?
S*

On 25/10/2011 08:32, Szczepan Bialek wrote:
Uzytkownik napisal w wiadomosci
...
On 22/10/2011 07:50, Szczepan Bialek wrote:
I have found the two old measurements:
"In 1818 Arago found that the refraction of a prism for star light was
the
same for light incident in the direction of the earth's orbital velocity
vs.
as for that coming in the opposite direction. This unexpected null result
was explained that same year by Fresnel's ether-dray theory, which
assumed
partial ether entrainment in transparent media by an amount depending
upon
the first power of v." From: http://www.3rd1000.com/chronoatoms.htm

And:

2. Vogel, H. C., "On the spectrographic method of determining the
velocity
of
stars in the line of sight", Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical
Society, Vol. 52, p.87, 1891
"The first result of any importance which the spectrographic method
furnished was the proof of the influence of the Earth's motion on the
displacement, which the earlier direct observations had failed to show
with certainity. [...]" From:
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1891MNRAS..52...87V

Who was right: Arago or Vogel?
S*

I would suggest they both were. Since starlight comprises a continuum
crossed by spectral lines, it's possible for the refraction of light
through the prism to be unchanged whilst the position of the spectral
lines varies against the continuum.

It is known that the spectroscopic methods and the spectrographic methods
are not accurate.

What level of accuracy are you looking for? for bright stars it's
possible to measure speeds to several 10s of m/s

But now are the spacecrafts like Voyager and Pionier. They transmit the
single frequency. So it is easy to detect any changes in frequency (The
diurinal and annual).

Are the result known?

I'm sure you could find something if you searched. What are you expecting?

"OG" napisal w wiadomosci
...
On 25/10/2011 08:32, Szczepan Bialek wrote:
Uzytkownik napisal w wiadomosci
...
On 22/10/2011 07:50, Szczepan Bialek wrote:
I have found the two old measurements:
"In 1818 Arago found that the refraction of a prism for star light was
the
same for light incident in the direction of the earth's orbital
velocity
vs.
as for that coming in the opposite direction. This unexpected null
result
was explained that same year by Fresnel's ether-dray theory, which
assumed
partial ether entrainment in transparent media by an amount depending
upon
the first power of v." From: http://www.3rd1000.com/chronoatoms.htm

And:

2. Vogel, H. C., "On the spectrographic method of determining the
velocity
of
stars in the line of sight", Monthly Notices of the Royal
Astronomical
Society, Vol. 52, p.87, 1891
"The first result of any importance which the spectrographic method
furnished was the proof of the influence of the Earth's motion on
the
displacement, which the earlier direct observations had failed to
show
with certainity. [...]" From:
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1891MNRAS..52...87V

Who was right: Arago or Vogel?
S*

I would suggest they both were. Since starlight comprises a continuum
crossed by spectral lines, it's possible for the refraction of light
through the prism to be unchanged whilst the position of the spectral
lines varies against the continuum.

It is known that the spectroscopic methods and the spectrographic methods
are not accurate.

What level of accuracy are you looking for? for bright stars it's possible
to measure speeds to several 10s of m/s

Yes. But I know that there are the diurinal effects and do not know about
the annual.
"As a result of the Earth's orbital motion about the Sun and the rotation of
the observer about the Earth's axis the solar spectral lines are Doppler
shifted relative to terrestrial standards. Both effects give rise to Doppler
amplitudes of the order of 0.5km/s.

This effect has, in the past been overlooked, with one Eastern-block group
"discovering" a diurnal shift in the Telluric O2 lines by comparing them
with nearby photospheric lines (which were taken as wavelength standards) !
See I.Vince, Publ. Astron. Obs. Belgrade 26, p.167 (1978) for the expose. "
From: http://solar-center.stanford.edu/FAQ/Qabsorption.html

But now are the spacecrafts like Voyager and Pionier. They transmit the
single frequency. So it is easy to detect any changes in frequency (The
diurinal and annual).

Are the result known?

I'm sure you could find something if you searched. What are you expecting?

An answer for the question: " Who was right: Arago or Vogel?

Your answer: "I would suggest they both were" is like the next duality.

The Arago null result is the base for the physics: "This unexpected null
result
was explained that same year by Fresnel's ether-dray theory".

It seems to me that Vogel was wrong. Searching failed. Today's astronomers
know the exact result and do not write about this because it is obvious for
them.
I am not an astronomer so I am asking.
S*

On 26/10/2011 09:15, Szczepan Bialek wrote:
napisal w wiadomosci
...
On 25/10/2011 08:32, Szczepan Bialek wrote:
Uzytkownik napisal w wiadomosci
...
On 22/10/2011 07:50, Szczepan Bialek wrote:
I have found the two old measurements:
"In 1818 Arago found that the refraction of a prism for star light was
the
same for light incident in the direction of the earth's orbital
velocity
vs.
as for that coming in the opposite direction. This unexpected null
result
was explained that same year by Fresnel's ether-dray theory, which
assumed
partial ether entrainment in transparent media by an amount depending
upon
the first power of v." From: http://www.3rd1000.com/chronoatoms.htm

And:

2. Vogel, H. C., "On the spectrographic method of determining the
velocity
of
stars in the line of sight", Monthly Notices of the Royal
Astronomical
Society, Vol. 52, p.87, 1891
"The first result of any importance which the spectrographic method
furnished was the proof of the influence of the Earth's motion on
the
displacement, which the earlier direct observations had failed to
show
with certainity. [...]" From:
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1891MNRAS..52...87V

Who was right: Arago or Vogel?
S*

I would suggest they both were. Since starlight comprises a continuum
crossed by spectral lines, it's possible for the refraction of light
through the prism to be unchanged whilst the position of the spectral
lines varies against the continuum.

It is known that the spectroscopic methods and the spectrographic methods
are not accurate.

What level of accuracy are you looking for? for bright stars it's possible
to measure speeds to several 10s of m/s

Yes. But I know that there are the diurinal effects and do not know about
the annual.
"As a result of the Earth's orbital motion about the Sun and the rotation of
the observer about the Earth's axis the solar spectral lines are Doppler
shifted relative to terrestrial standards. Both effects give rise to Doppler
amplitudes of the order of 0.5km/s.

Yes, the rotation of the Earth means that at the equator at Sunrise the
observer is hurtling towards the sun at about 1600km/h, and at sunset
the observer is speeding away at about 1600km/h. At other latitudes th
this is less. In addition, the shape of the earth's elliptical orbit
means that between January (perihelion) and July (aphelion) the Earth
gets about 5 million km further away from the Sun, with the separation
reducing in the following 6 months


This effect has, in the past been overlooked, with one Eastern-block group
"discovering" a diurnal shift in the Telluric O2 lines by comparing them
with nearby photospheric lines (which were taken as wavelength standards) !
See I.Vince, Publ. Astron. Obs. Belgrade 26, p.167 (1978) for the expose. "
From: http://solar-center.stanford.edu/FAQ/Qabsorption.html

The Telluric O2 lines are those that are produced by O2 in the Earth's
atmosphere. It seems likely that that 'Eastern block group' had measured
their frequency using solar lines as reference wavelengths. Being
unaware that there was *a diurnal variation in the solar lines*, they
interpreted their results as showing that the *Earth's atmospheric
lines* were changing through the day.


But now are the spacecrafts like Voyager and Pionier. They transmit the
single frequency. So it is easy to detect any changes in frequency (The
diurinal and annual).

Are the result known?

I'm sure you could find something if you searched. What are you expecting?

An answer for the question: " Who was right: Arago or Vogel?

Your answer: "I would suggest they both were" is like the next duality.

The Arago null result is the base for the physics: "This unexpected null
result
was explained that same year by Fresnel's ether-dray theory".

It was previously thought that the angle of displacement of light
through a prism would be dependent on the speed with which light
impacted on the prism. The constancy of the displacement angle pointed
to a constancy of the speed of light; and in the era before special
relativity, it was suggested that the aether was 'dragged' along with
the Earth.


It seems to me that Vogel was wrong.

In what way do you think he was wrong?

I must admit that even if unintentional,I felt that great pride for
all my astronomical ancestors after watching a scene from a movie and
that sometimes as an art form,it can help draw attention to those
things which are important.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcfNpfaGejA

Now that engineering practicalities are trying to surpass astronomical
principles which maintain the correspondence between the day and the
year or daily rotation to the orbital circuit through the 1461 AM/PM
designations how small you must all feel before a heritage many times
older than the right ascension mistake you all follow.

On Sat, 03 Dec 2011 07:06:18 -0800, oriel36 wrote:

It's a Hollywood movie, FFS.

Meanwhile, I take great pride from the engineering feats apparent in Star
Wars - Attack of the Clones' which, IMHO is more valid.

BTW, welcome to my killfile - don't bother responding.

Bloody God-botherers give religion a bad name.

On Dec 5, 5:00*pm, Moi wrote:
On Sat, 03 Dec 2011 07:06:18 -0800, oriel36 wrote:

It's a Hollywood movie, FFS.


It was the Arago meridian markers in the movie that I was looking
at,the AM/PM markers which dictate 1461 rotations in 1461 days/4 years
until the English version of Hollywood,otherwise known as Royal
Society empiricism,created a fictional 1465 rotations in 1461 days out
of linking timekeeping averages directly to stellar circumpolar
motion.The movie scene with its gorgeous score resonates with far more
accuracy and dignity that your brute FFS mind could muster.

An English carpenter called John Harrison is your only saving
grace,his exquisite watches mark well the rotation of the Earth in
proportion to the orbital circuits and whatever resonates in a person
in bringing up humanity's magnificent heritage in
timekeeping,astronomy ,adventure,innovation and art,it can only serve
those ends to which you dullards cannot and do not aspire to.

You poor people couldn't mesh astronomy with art,innovation with
adventure as the older civilizations once did and if you wish to know
why there are 1461 rotations in 1461 days maybe something more
straightforward would suit you,it is still Hollywood but better that
than a dumb blank mind -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROz0-4ymuXQ

I wish I could present a more colorful rendition using the Greenwich
meridian but it is my understanding that English involvement is now at
such an all-time low that none of you could be bothered saving the AM/
PM designations that begin and end at Greenwich.





Meanwhile, I take great pride from the engineering feats apparent
in Star
Wars - Attack of the Clones' which, IMHO is more valid.

BTW, welcome to my killfile - don't bother responding.

Bloody God-botherers give religion a bad name.

The guy at 8 minutes in passes judgment on your kind,you are far too
boring to appreciate the stakes,the invention,the astronomical
principles and the sheer style attached to timekeeping,astronomy and
the planet's dynamics.