Question, pioneer anomality because of magnetic induction?

I had the strangest idea this morning,
_could_ it be that if pioneer has some magnets
(even it if is just current carrying wires),
it is slowed by magnetic interaction with mu space?

You know, if you drop a magnet in a copper pipe it
is slowed down....

In how far does 'the rest of the universe' behave
like a conductor around pioneer?

Just shoot it down (the idea), probably wrong.

schrieb im Newsbeitrag
ups.com...
The CMBR falsifies SR

SRists forget that since Einstein, the CMBR has been discovered.
To day, the spaceship observer, as well as the Earth observer, can
determine their velocity wrt the CMBR. Those velocities can be called
"absolute", hence the relative velocity between the Earth and the
spaceship are also "absolute". Iow, thanks to the CMBR, one knows which
one is "really" moving fast, and which one is not.
If SRists recognize this, they should realize that the theoretical
foundation of SR is wrong.

Marcel Luttgens


Yes we have absolute velocities with respect to CMBR locally. Fully right.

And these abolute velocities decrease by the local CMBR zero velocity when
the distance becomes greater. Thats Pioneer anomaly.depending on Hubble
Constant. Therefore also the rotational Spin slows down the second Pioneer
anomaly depending on Hubble Constant. The CMBR zero velocity is the same as
the Hubble velocity v = r/T

You see the absolute and the relative must be unified to obtain new SR. GR
is wrong so or so.
The most physicists know this. Only some like Hawking of shure see it
otherwise.

The main mistake in SR are the Lorentz transforms they are wrong. They must
be replaced or be corrected
by the right SR cosmology including Hubble law maybe corrected for large
distances, CMBR background, ....
Because GR is wrong only this only remaining SR cosmology can be true.

Now who can connect the absolute and the relative. The world is not absolute
or relative as the former thoughts
all have been, it is relalute or absotive, something containing both.

Josef Matz




"Jan Panteltje" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
I had the strangest idea this morning,
_could_ it be that if pioneer has some magnets
(even it if is just current carrying wires),
it is slowed by magnetic interaction with mu space?

You know, if you drop a magnet in a copper pipe it
is slowed down....

In how far does 'the rest of the universe' behave
like a conductor around pioneer?

Just shoot it down (the idea), probably wrong.

On Fri, 04 Aug 2006 17:29:05 +0000, Jan Panteltje wrote:

I had the strangest idea this morning,
_could_ it be that if pioneer has some magnets
(even it if is just current carrying wires),
it is slowed by magnetic interaction with mu space?

You know, if you drop a magnet in a copper pipe it
is slowed down....

In how far does 'the rest of the universe' behave
like a conductor around pioneer?

Just shoot it down (the idea), probably wrong.

Good question, and possibly right.

I would think a rotating magnetic field would vastly increase the
Pioneer's apparent size (volume of space of the field) wrt all
the protons and electrons (reaction mass) flying by.

--
Craig Fink
Courtesy E-Mail Welcome @

"Craig Fink" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 04 Aug 2006 17:29:05 +0000, Jan Panteltje wrote:

I had the strangest idea this morning,
_could_ it be that if pioneer has some magnets
(even it if is just current carrying wires),
it is slowed by magnetic interaction with mu space?

You know, if you drop a magnet in a copper pipe it
is slowed down....

In how far does 'the rest of the universe' behave
like a conductor around pioneer?

Just shoot it down (the idea), probably wrong.

Good question, and possibly right.

I would think a rotating magnetic field would vastly increase the
Pioneer's apparent size (volume of space of the field) wrt all
the protons and electrons (reaction mass) flying by.

The 'protons and electrons flying by' are leaving the
system at ~400 km/s. Pioneer is leaving at ~12km/s.
Any drag would accelerate the craft away from the
Sun which is the wrong direction.

George

On a sunny day (Tue, 15 Aug 2006 23:06:05 +0100) it happened "George Dishman"
wrote in :


"Craig Fink" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 04 Aug 2006 17:29:05 +0000, Jan Panteltje wrote:

I had the strangest idea this morning,
_could_ it be that if pioneer has some magnets
(even it if is just current carrying wires),
it is slowed by magnetic interaction with mu space?

You know, if you drop a magnet in a copper pipe it
is slowed down....

In how far does 'the rest of the universe' behave
like a conductor around pioneer?

Just shoot it down (the idea), probably wrong.

Good question, and possibly right.

I would think a rotating magnetic field would vastly increase the
Pioneer's apparent size (volume of space of the field) wrt all
the protons and electrons (reaction mass) flying by.

The 'protons and electrons flying by' are leaving the
system at ~400 km/s. Pioneer is leaving at ~12km/s.
Any drag would accelerate the craft away from the
Sun which is the wrong direction.

George

Yes, you are like right....
Maybe it is Le Saga particles coming in that slow it down...
Or simply maybe space is not that empty as we think....
dark matter?

I really do not know.
Maybe something we do not know about is flowing into the sun.

Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Tue, 15 Aug 2006 23:06:05 +0100) it happened "George Dishman"
wrote in :
"Craig Fink" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 04 Aug 2006 17:29:05 +0000, Jan Panteltje wrote:

I had the strangest idea this morning,
_could_ it be that if pioneer has some magnets
(even it if is just current carrying wires),
it is slowed by magnetic interaction with mu space?

You know, if you drop a magnet in a copper pipe it
is slowed down....

In how far does 'the rest of the universe' behave
like a conductor around pioneer?

Just shoot it down (the idea), probably wrong.

Good question, and possibly right.

I would think a rotating magnetic field would vastly increase the
Pioneer's apparent size (volume of space of the field) wrt all
the protons and electrons (reaction mass) flying by.

The 'protons and electrons flying by' are leaving the
system at ~400 km/s. Pioneer is leaving at ~12km/s.
Any drag would accelerate the craft away from the
Sun which is the wrong direction.

Yes, you are like right....
Maybe it is Le Saga particles coming in that slow it down...

Supposedly Le Sage particles would create the
normal gravitational forces, the anomaly is additional.

Or simply maybe space is not that empty as we think....
dark matter?

I have been working on that. The parameter space
is quite tightly constrained but there may just be
enough room to squeeze in a solution. If so there
will be testable predictions. :-)

I really do not know.
Maybe something we do not know about is flowing into the sun.

Trouble with any idea of that form is that the flow
density should increase as the inverse square of
the heliocentric range if whatever is conserved
while the anomaly is independent of range.

George

On a sunny day (16 Aug 2006 04:56:46 -0700) it happened "George Dishman"
wrote in
. com:

Or simply maybe space is not that empty as we think....
dark matter?

I have been working on that. The parameter space
is quite tightly constrained but there may just be
enough room to squeeze in a solution. If so there
will be testable predictions. :-)

An other idea: if it is a 'red shift' like effect?
For example because time (or space density) was less
the further you go away from the sun.

All guesswork I admit.

Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (16 Aug 2006 04:56:46 -0700) it happened "George Dishman"
wrote in
. com:

Or simply maybe space is not that empty as we think....
dark matter?

I have been working on that. The parameter space
is quite tightly constrained but there may just be
enough room to squeeze in a solution. If so there
will be testable predictions. :-)

An other idea: if it is a 'red shift' like effect? ...

It isn't, it is a blue shift. The returned frequency is
higher than anticipated indicating the craft is being
slowed in its attempt to leave the Solar System.

George

On a sunny day (16 Aug 2006 05:08:28 -0700) it happened "George Dishman"
wrote in
.com:


Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (16 Aug 2006 04:56:46 -0700) it happened "George Dishman"
wrote in
. com:

Or simply maybe space is not that empty as we think....
dark matter?

I have been working on that. The parameter space
is quite tightly constrained but there may just be
enough room to squeeze in a solution. If so there
will be testable predictions. :-)

An other idea: if it is a 'red shift' like effect? ...

It isn't, it is a blue shift. The returned frequency is
higher than anticipated indicating the craft is being
slowed in its attempt to leave the Solar System.

George

Ooops, OK, so blue shift, I actually knew that, space
density increases?.. OK this is getting nowhere.
I give up for now :-)

One question, in case 'parameter space': would
it be compatible with the effect as observed and
corrected for in MOND theory?
Space rotating along (or some matter in it), so
'dark matter' again?


I like the space not empty idea, clearly for example
a Le Saga gravity model _also_ predicts 'drag', the
more the further you get away from a massive object,
as near to the massive object you are in Le Saga particle
shadow, at least from one side, so less particle density.
This is _my_ favorite model :-)

Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (16 Aug 2006 05:08:28 -0700) it happened "George Dishman"
wrote in
.com:
Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (16 Aug 2006 04:56:46 -0700) it happened "George Dishman"
wrote in
. com:

Or simply maybe space is not that empty as we think....
dark matter?

I have been working on that. The parameter space
is quite tightly constrained but there may just be
enough room to squeeze in a solution. If so there
will be testable predictions. :-)
....

One question, in case 'parameter space': would
it be compatible with the effect as observed and
corrected for in MOND theory?

Interesting question. I couldn't say for sure but
I think the answer would be no. MOND AIUI tries
to match the gravitational effect of DM only while
this would be a drag effect.

George