Anyone Using an A-P Mount and TheSkyX?

Davoud:
But that's not the important thing. The important thing is that
Astro-Physics has released the following in a PDF
http://www.astro-physics.com/images/Park_Positions_Defined.pdf:
"WARNING! Park 1 is considered an obsolete park position. Use Park 1 at
your own risk!" and "[Park 4] is the new Reference Park Position."

SlurpieMcDoublegulp:
You can use Park 1, I use it all the time. It is NOT obsolete, just not
recommended due to sensitivity to user error. You just have to remember that
once you start the mount, it will begin to track at the sidereal rate. If you
walk away or fall asleep, eventually the scope can be driven into the mount.
If you keep your clutches somewhat loose, nothing bad will happen. The RA
axis will simply slip when the scope cannot go any further. However with
clutches fully tight you might damage the scope or mount when contact is made.

That's good to know. I have never resumed from Park 1 and then gone off
and forgotten what I was doing, but I have delayed while doing some
other task in the zerbat'ry. Maybe the dire "WARNING!" in the A-P PDF
on park positions needs to be toned down a bit. "Slew the telescope to
an object immediately after resuming from the Park 1 position..." that
sort of thing. If Park 1 isn't obsolete, then you should not say in the
PDF that "Park 1 is considered an obsolete park position." Just tell it
like it is and perhaps even we weak-minded users will be able to figure
it out.

The Leap year bug in the keypad is fixed, so nothing to worry about there either.

Fixed for those for whom the updater worked. But I have bought a new
serial adapter with FTDI chip to use in place of my Keyspan and I
haven't had the opportunity to try it yet. Would like to wait until the
temperature rises above -273C.

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

Davoud:
"OK, here's what's really happening as I have learned just today.
Firstly, TheSkyX does not declare anything. It gets a piece of data
from the A-P hand controller that says either "east" or "west." TheSkyX
merely repeats what it has been told....

SlurpieMcDoublegulp
The keypad does not send anything to any other software. The keypad is
irrelevant to the operation of the mount. It is simply a database planetarium
program without the charts.

When TheSkyX queries the mount for scope position, the mount servo sends the
pier side according to the Declination sign. The mount servo does not have a
readout, so it cannot declare anything for you to read. Therefore the pier
side declaration is done by TheSkyX so you read it on your laptop screen.

Christ, I hate being caught in the middle, especially when the people
on either side of me are experts and I am a lowly user. Daniel Bisque
wrote in the SoftBisqUser Yahoo Group today "The AP hand paddle, not
TheSkyX, is entirely responsible for determining the OTA side of pier.
TheSkyX asks the hand paddle ³What side of pier is the OTA on?², and
then displays what the hand controller is reporting."

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

On Tuesday, March 22, 2016 at 2:17:30 AM UTC, SlurpieMcDoublegulp wrote:
On Monday, March 21, 2016 at 9:04:29 PM UTC-5, Davoud wrote:
Davoud:
If so, you may be able to tell me why TheSkyX Pro (latest daily build
running on the latest El Capitan) reports that the OTA is on the east
side of the mount immediately after resuming from Park 1, when the OTA
is most definitely on the west side of the mount. I don't know if it's
the mount reporting its position improperly or the TheSkyX being
confused. I suspect the latter, as GOTO works from the A-P
keypad--indicating that the A-P knows where it is. But that doesn't
necessarily mean that it is properly reporting what it knows to
TheSkyX.

SlurpieMcDoublegulp:
Park 1 is at the Meridian pointing to the Northern Horizon. The moment that
you start the mount tracking, it will track past the meridian and the
telescope will indeed be on the east side of the meridian. Yes, it's on the
west side physically, but the tube assembly is now underneath the mount
(counterweights are slightly above), and the optics will be pointing to the
eastern portion of the horizon.

Actually I was wrong about this. Pier side is a convention that was made by
the professional astronomy community many many years ago, well before the age
of amateur GoTo mounts. Basically it has to do with whether the Declination
number is positive or negative. For all positive Dec numbers with the scope
on the West side, your planetarium program (TheSkyX Pro) will declare that
the scope is on the west side. For all negative Dec numbers - basically all
numbers below the pole - TheSkyX will declare the scope to be on the East side.

OK, here's what's really happening as I have learned just today.
Firstly, TheSkyX does not declare anything. It gets a piece of data
from the A-P hand controller that says either "east" or "west." TheSkyX
merely repeats what it has been told. At least one of your statements
above is true.

But that's not the important thing. The important thing is that
Astro-Physics has released the following in a PDF
http://www.astro-physics.com/images/Park_Positions_Defined.pdf:
"WARNING! Park 1 is considered an obsolete park position. Use Park 1 at
your own risk!" and "[Park 4] is the new Reference Park Position."

This is most unfortunate for me, as my observatory is very small
(2-meter dome) and Park 1, which was sanctioned by Astro-Physics for
many years, was the only position that gave me sufficient space to
comfortably place a small laptop table (fold-up, but sturdy,
slide-projector stand from 1976!) and a small stool for my comfort. I
used Park 1 with-and-without a computer for many years with no
problems. I have no idea why Park 1 is suddenly Bad, but if I had to
guess I would say a bug in recent hand controller software. I know that
the software has a leap-year bug that affected Park 1 from 1 January to
1 March.

In any case, I'm going to have to do some re-thinking, including how
I'll get through my main (north side) door without bashing my face on
my camera http://www.primordial-light.com/observatory.html.

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

You can use Park 1, I use it all the time. It is NOT obsolete, just not recommended due to sensitivity to user error. You just have to remember that once you start the mount, it will begin to track at the sidereal rate.

You give yourselves the comforting title of 'old timers' but there is something rotten about unapologetic old men unable to escape a celestial sphere trance that continues to poison the next generation of humanity. The fact is that you equate the 'sidereal rate' with the Earth's rotation in direct conflict with the Lat/Long system which determines an Equatorial speed of 1037.5 miles per hour and a complete rotation of the planetary circumference once in 24 hours.

Had you enough sense you would qualify the 'sidereal rate' as a timekeeping average within the calendar framework but the attraction of pasting everything on to a rotating celestial sphere is so mesmerizing that nothing else exists. For you Leo moving in circumpolar motion is proof of Spring and not the fact that the Sun will set below the local horizon at the Antarctic pole today signaling fall in the Southern hemisphere and Spring in the Northern -

http://www.timeanddate.com/sun/antarctica/south-pole

You are probably aware that a whole different type of astronomy exists outside the celestial sphere bubble you and the other magnification guys exist in where the lines between fiction and reality blur. A society that loses it ability to exercise those faculties necessary to make sense of observations will also lose perspectives in all other areas of existence and this is why astronomy has always been important to society going to back to antiquity.

On Sunday, March 20, 2016 at 9:16:04 PM UTC-4, Davoud wrote:
Davoud:

As for Snell, who has been in my kill-file since The Singularity, the
man is brilliant.

Correct. I deduced that your "problem" was very likely due to pilot error or, in your case, PEBKAC and gave you a subtle hint about it so as not to be impolite.

Politeness is most definitely not one of your virtues, however.

On Sunday, March 20, 2016 at 10:18:08 AM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Sun, 20 Mar 2016 06:12:38 -0700 (PDT), wsnell01 wrote:

On Sunday, March 20, 2016 at 8:34:51 AM UTC-4, Davoud wrote:
If so, you may be able to tell me why TheSkyX Pro (latest daily build
running on the latest El Capitan) reports that the OTA is on the east
side of the mount immediately after resuming from Park 1, when the OTA
is most definitely on the west side of the mount. I don't know if it's
the mount reporting its position improperly or the TheSkyX being
confused. I suspect the latter, as GOTO works from the A-P
keypad--indicating that the A-P knows where it is. But that doesn't
necessarily mean that it is properly reporting what it knows to
TheSkyX.

Thanks!


Your mount is a german equatorial. There are two ways to orient the mount to make the scope point at a given location in the sky.

I'm sure he knows that. It's a regular problem with GEMs that the
mount and the control software disagree about whether the scope is on
the east or west side of the pier. It turns out to be a bit tricky in
many cases to figure that out from the information that the mount
provides. This generates quite a few discussions on software
development sites, with various mounts as well as various software.

It can be important in order to determine camera rotation, find guide
stars, detect automatic pier flips, position the dome slot, and other
reasons as well.

http://www.ascom-standards.org/Help/...deOfPier.ht m

davoid seems more concerned with typos, however.

On Tue, 22 Mar 2016 02:57:37 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

http://www.ascom-standards.org/Help/...deOfPier.ht m

It remains a regular topic of discussion on the ASCOM forum because of
the problems involved in identifying and utilizing side-of-pier
information.

On Tuesday, March 22, 2016 at 10:21:05 AM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Tue, 22 Mar 2016 02:57:37 -0700 (PDT), wsnell01 wrote:

http://www.ascom-standards.org/Help/...deOfPier.ht m

It remains a regular topic of discussion on the ASCOM forum because of
the problems involved in identifying and utilizing side-of-pier
information.

The first line of the remarks is relevant to davoid's confusion:

"For historical reasons, this property's name does not reflect its true meaning."

On Monday, March 21, 2016 at 10:38:53 PM UTC-5, Davoud wrote:
Davoud:
But that's not the important thing. The important thing is that
Astro-Physics has released the following in a PDF
http://www.astro-physics.com/images/Park_Positions_Defined.pdf:
"WARNING! Park 1 is considered an obsolete park position. Use Park 1 at
your own risk!" and "[Park 4] is the new Reference Park Position."

SlurpieMcDoublegulp:
You can use Park 1, I use it all the time. It is NOT obsolete, just not
recommended due to sensitivity to user error. You just have to remember that
once you start the mount, it will begin to track at the sidereal rate. If you
walk away or fall asleep, eventually the scope can be driven into the mount.
If you keep your clutches somewhat loose, nothing bad will happen. The RA
axis will simply slip when the scope cannot go any further. However with
clutches fully tight you might damage the scope or mount when contact is made.

That's good to know. I have never resumed from Park 1 and then gone off
and forgotten what I was doing, but I have delayed while doing some
other task in the zerbat'ry. Maybe the dire "WARNING!" in the A-P PDF
on park positions needs to be toned down a bit. "Slew the telescope to
an object immediately after resuming from the Park 1 position..." that
sort of thing. If Park 1 isn't obsolete, then you should not say in the
PDF that "Park 1 is considered an obsolete park position." Just tell it
like it is and perhaps even we weak-minded users will be able to figure
it out.

The Leap year bug in the keypad is fixed, so nothing to worry about there either.

Fixed for those for whom the updater worked. But I have bought a new
serial adapter with FTDI chip to use in place of my Keyspan and I
haven't had the opportunity to try it yet. Would like to wait until the
temperature rises above -273C.

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

It's not an issue. Feb 29 is gone. Your keypad will work fine.

On Monday, March 21, 2016 at 10:47:22 PM UTC-5, Davoud wrote:
Davoud:
"OK, here's what's really happening as I have learned just today.
Firstly, TheSkyX does not declare anything. It gets a piece of data
from the A-P hand controller that says either "east" or "west." TheSkyX
merely repeats what it has been told....

SlurpieMcDoublegulp
The keypad does not send anything to any other software. The keypad is
irrelevant to the operation of the mount. It is simply a database planetarium
program without the charts.

When TheSkyX queries the mount for scope position, the mount servo sends the
pier side according to the Declination sign. The mount servo does not have a
readout, so it cannot declare anything for you to read. Therefore the pier
side declaration is done by TheSkyX so you read it on your laptop screen.

Christ, I hate being caught in the middle, especially when the people
on either side of me are experts and I am a lowly user. Daniel Bisque
wrote in the SoftBisqUser Yahoo Group today "The AP hand paddle, not
TheSkyX, is entirely responsible for determining the OTA side of pier.
TheSkyX asks the hand paddle ³What side of pier is the OTA on?², and
then displays what the hand controller is reporting."

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

Daniel Bisque is incorrect. The hand paddle does NOT control the mount. The servo controls the mount. The hand paddle can be disconnected and the mount will still report the telescope side - because the servo is the actual brains of the mount. The hand paddle simply allows you to communicate with the mount, same as any planetarium program.

On Tuesday, March 22, 2016 at 5:17:42 PM UTC, SlurpieMcDoublegulp wrote:
On Monday, March 21, 2016 at 10:47:22 PM UTC-5, Davoud wrote:
Davoud:
"OK, here's what's really happening as I have learned just today.
Firstly, TheSkyX does not declare anything. It gets a piece of data
from the A-P hand controller that says either "east" or "west." TheSkyX
merely repeats what it has been told....

SlurpieMcDoublegulp
The keypad does not send anything to any other software. The keypad is
irrelevant to the operation of the mount. It is simply a database planetarium
program without the charts.

When TheSkyX queries the mount for scope position, the mount servo sends the
pier side according to the Declination sign. The mount servo does not have a
readout, so it cannot declare anything for you to read. Therefore the pier
side declaration is done by TheSkyX so you read it on your laptop screen.

Christ, I hate being caught in the middle, especially when the people
on either side of me are experts and I am a lowly user. Daniel Bisque
wrote in the SoftBisqUser Yahoo Group today "The AP hand paddle, not
TheSkyX, is entirely responsible for determining the OTA side of pier.
TheSkyX asks the hand paddle ³What side of pier is the OTA on?², and
then displays what the hand controller is reporting."

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

Daniel Bisque is incorrect. The hand paddle does NOT control the mount. The servo controls the mount. The hand paddle can be disconnected and the mount will still report the telescope side - because the servo is the actual brains of the mount. The hand paddle simply allows you to communicate with the mount, same as any planetarium program.

Call it like it is - a celestial sphere enthusiast's view of space -

https://www.fi.edu/theaters/planetarium

It represents something much more than an assault on astronomy, it surfaces as a closed-mindedness that hollows out astronomy and pastes everything on to a rotating circumpolar framework dictated by the calendar system.

As the Sun sets at the South pole latitude here we have these enthusiasts talking up the motion of the Sun across a celestial sphere equator as if it is the most reasonable thing and misusing imaging to support that view -

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap140319.html

I would have previously called you thugs by virtue of the destruction visited on astronomy by making a stupid and false conclusion a number of centuries ago however this may be a misplaced judgment as you are all convinced that celestial sphere observing is astronomy !.

Within that celestial sphere is a broad range of theorists and magnification enthusiasts and that amounts to a strange mixture of radicalism and fundamentalism, something lethal to any society when facts are paramount, even basic ones which link the Earth's 24 hour day to the Lat/Long system and rotation.

Planetarium software is using a 24 averages within the calendar framework to impress positions of objects against a celestial sphere background and nobody could possibly find it anything but horrific without qualification.