Observing Visit to Mauna Kea

On Tuesday, March 22, 2016 at 6:36:20 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Saturday, March 19, 2016 at 3:31:18 AM UTC-4, Chris.B wrote:
On Thursday, 17 March 2016 15:16:47 UTC+1, wsne... wrote:
On Wednesday, March 16, 2016 at 7:59:29 PM UTC-4, Quadibloc wrote:
On Wednesday, March 16, 2016 at 3:45:59 PM UTC-6, RichA wrote:

Ask the natives exactly HOW a telescope is going to make their FICTIONAL gods
angry? Are they always against learning new things? Reminds me of the Star
Trek ep. where the albinos were kept in ignorant fear of "Val."

Not all the Hawai'ians are in agreement on this. Many welcome the telescope.

As it happens, they _own_ the mountain, so that changes the issue a bit.

But basically the idea is that the mountain is sacred, and thus building
permanent structures on it is inappropriate.

There are environmental concerns too:

http://www.civilbeat.com/2015/04/doe...nmental-risks/

What if the mountain in question was in the US and owned by native Indians?

Where's the cavalry when you need them?

"Got to have a massacre or two... tra-la."

http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwor...way-back-59109

and perhaps less positive:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!ms...U/iqcsOY4iBQAJ


You might try educating yourself about American culture before commenting on it.


Ignore link just above, read this one:

http://www.mauna-a-wakea.info/maunakea/H4_astrodev.html

On Tuesday, March 22, 2016 at 4:37:34 AM UTC-6, wrote:

Ignore link just above, read this one:

http://www.mauna-a-wakea.info/maunakea/H4_astrodev.html

Thank you for some very interesting links.

It's unfortunate that two other major observing sites are also experiencing similar issues, despite apparently amicable relations in the past.

Of course, though, Mauna Kea is more vital and irreplaceable than mountain
within the United States of relatively modest height.

In Canada, unlike the United States, persons of indigenous origin are a
sufficiently large proportion of the population that they loom as large in our
awareness as descendants of the victims of the slave trade do in your country.

John Savard

On Tuesday, March 22, 2016 at 8:27:26 AM UTC-4, Quadibloc wrote:
On Tuesday, March 22, 2016 at 4:37:34 AM UTC-6, wsne... wrote:

Ignore link just above, read this one:

http://www.mauna-a-wakea.info/maunakea/H4_astrodev.html

Thank you for some very interesting links.

It's unfortunate that two other major observing sites are also experiencing similar issues, despite apparently amicable relations in the past.

Of course, though, Mauna Kea is more vital and irreplaceable than mountain
within the United States of relatively modest height.

Both mountains are within the United States.

In Canada, unlike the United States, persons of indigenous origin are a
sufficiently large proportion of the population that they loom as large in our
awareness as descendants of the victims of the slave trade do in your country.


Today's descendants of the victims of the slave trade are not themselves victims of the slave trade.

On Tuesday, March 22, 2016 at 9:19:51 AM UTC-4, Quadibloc wrote:
On Tuesday, March 22, 2016 at 6:37:54 AM UTC-6, wsne... wrote:
On Tuesday, March 22, 2016 at 8:27:26 AM UTC-4, Quadibloc wrote:

In Canada, unlike the United States, persons of indigenous origin are a
sufficiently large proportion of the population that they loom as large in our
awareness as descendants of the victims of the slave trade do in your country.

Today's descendants of the victims of the slave trade are not themselves
victims of the slave trade.

Well, I suppose they're better off than they would be had they been born in
Africa.

Had the history been different, none of us alive today would have been born, anywhere.

However, they certainly are, on the average, disadvantaged - and this
disadvantage has its roots in slavery and what followed slavery.

What disadvantage?


The United
States, for some reason, immediately following the Civil War, failed to
institute a vast program to educate the black people - at the expense of the
Southern states - so that within no more than one generation, black Americans
would be, on average, identical to white Americans in all key demographic
aspects... same average household wealth, same average educational level, same
average income.

Ah, socialism, again.


As long as kids keep getting robbed of their lunch money at knifepoint...

I don't do that.

oh,
wait, they've solved that one with metal detectors and plastic cards... it
won't be possible to get the thinking of all the American people, even ordinary
working-class ones who can't afford to live in gated neighborhoods, fully in
line with educated and sophisticated opinion on racial matters.

I am fully informed on such matters. You seem not to be. Preach elsewhere.



This is intolerable.

What is intolerable?

And people like you, who say the taxman is just as much a thief as a mugger,
stand in the way of making America a nice happy country filled with sunshine
and smiling faces.

Ah, socialism, again.


Of course, as the tongue-in-cheekness of the above suggests,

So your comments were a waste of time.

while I may not
agree with all your opinions, I have not lost sight of the fact that *social
programs cost money*, and ambitious social programs cost even more money.

Ah, socialism, again.


Which is why we have to accept that we live in an imperfect world.

No ****!?

On Wednesday, March 23, 2016 at 6:11:02 AM UTC-6, wrote:
On Tuesday, March 22, 2016 at 9:19:51 AM UTC-4, Quadibloc wrote:

The United
States, for some reason, immediately following the Civil War, failed to
institute a vast program to educate the black people - at the expense of the
Southern states - so that within no more than one generation, black Americans
would be, on average, identical to white Americans in all key demographic
aspects... same average household wealth, same average educational level, same
average income.

Ah, socialism, again.

Socialism is wrong, but slavery wasn't?

I mean, whatever your beliefs concerning the proper role of government in
society may be, *clearly* everyone must agree that black Americans, by right,
should be able to wake up in an America where being black doesn't imply any
disadvantage - where complete equality is just taken for granted without a
second thought.

At present, in the United States, this is not the case; hence, whatever
obstacles stand in the way of this absolute right of black people must be
bulldozed out of the way by whatever means necessary... excluding, of course,
ridiculous steps that would lead to an even worse violation of rights than that
being corrected, but it would take an awful lot to be worse than the horrible
discrimination faced every day by innocent law-abiding black people.

So silly ideas like making everyone blind are excluded. But stuff that involves spending tax dollars is not in that league.

John Savard

On Wednesday, March 23, 2016 at 8:50:38 AM UTC-4, Quadibloc wrote:
On Wednesday, March 23, 2016 at 6:11:02 AM UTC-6, wsne... wrote:
On Tuesday, March 22, 2016 at 9:19:51 AM UTC-4, Quadibloc wrote:

The United
States, for some reason, immediately following the Civil War, failed to
institute a vast program to educate the black people - at the expense of the
Southern states - so that within no more than one generation, black Americans
would be, on average, identical to white Americans in all key demographic
aspects... same average household wealth, same average educational level, same
average income.

Ah, socialism, again.

Socialism is wrong, but slavery wasn't?

Those are YOUR words.

Socialism and slavery are both wrong.


I mean, whatever your beliefs concerning the proper role of government in
society may be, *clearly* everyone must agree that black Americans, by right,
should be able to wake up in an America where being black doesn't imply any
disadvantage - where complete equality is just taken for granted without a
second thought.

Who says it implies a disadvantage?


At present, in the United States, this is not the case; hence, whatever
obstacles stand in the way of this absolute right of black people must be
bulldozed out of the way by whatever means necessary... excluding, of course,
ridiculous steps that would lead to an even worse violation of rights than that
being corrected, but it would take an awful lot to be worse than the horrible
discrimination faced every day by innocent law-abiding black people.

So far today I have not discriminated against anyone. You?

So silly ideas like making everyone blind are excluded. But stuff that involves spending tax dollars is not in that league.

Ah, socialism, again.