Thankfully !

Thankfully people are coming to their senses and signs of green shoots
are appearing -

http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/lin....html&edu=high

Yes they haven't fully explained how daily rotation, rotational
orientation and orbital specifics combine to generate the seasons but
nobody is happier than I am to see the movement towards teaching kids
properly about these things.

A simple addition would be to explain where the 24 hour day comes from
and how the days roll seamlessly into each other,no huge intricate
explanation but the simple difference between natural noon and 24 hour
noon.

On Jun 29, 11:14*am, oriel36 wrote:
Thankfully people are coming to their senses and signs of green shoots
are appearing *-

http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/lin.../earth2.html&e....

Yes they haven't fully explained how *daily rotation, rotational
orientation and orbital specifics combine to generate the seasons but
nobody is happier than I am to see the movement towards teaching kids
properly about these things.

A simple addition would be to explain where the 24 hour day comes from
and how the days roll seamlessly into each other,no huge intricate
explanation but the simple difference between natural noon and 24 hour
noon.

Nothing new here, everyone agrees with all of this... except that the
author of this page, when he said "The Earth rotates around once in 24
hours", forgot to include the phrase "with respect to the sun..."
Otherwise, he is perfectly correct.

The reason nothing was mentioned about the orbital specific is
because, of course, there is no such thing. The Earth simply does what
it does, and all we can do is observe it and then try to make a model
that explains it, and then observe some more and refine the model. The
dead 17th century guys pretty much had it right, the modern guys
simply have refined the measurements to many decimal places...

Frames, Gerald, you need to understand frames...

"It's all to do with the training: you can do a lot if you're properly
trained."
- Queen Elizabeth II

\Paul A

On Jun 29, 7:30*pm, palsing wrote:
On Jun 29, 11:14*am, oriel36 wrote:

Thankfully people are coming to their senses and signs of green shoots
are appearing *-

http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/lin.../earth2.html&e....

Yes they haven't fully explained how *daily rotation, rotational
orientation and orbital specifics combine to generate the seasons but
nobody is happier than I am to see the movement towards teaching kids
properly about these things.

A simple addition would be to explain where the 24 hour day comes from
and how the days roll seamlessly into each other,no huge intricate
explanation but the simple difference between natural noon and 24 hour
noon.

Nothing new here, everyone agrees with all of this... except that the
author of this page, when he said "The Earth rotates around once in 24
hours", forgot to include the phrase "with respect to the sun..."
Otherwise, he is perfectly correct.

The reason nothing was mentioned about the orbital specific is
because, of course, there is no such thing. The Earth simply does what
it does, and all we can do is observe it and then try to make a model
that explains it, and then observe some more and refine the model. The
dead 17th century guys pretty much had it right, the modern guys
simply have refined the measurements to many decimal places...

Frames, Gerald, you need to understand frames...

"It's all to do with the training: you can do a lot if you're properly
trained."
- Queen Elizabeth II

\Paul A

You get the trekkie to remove that entire section he wrote in
Wikipedia,that is how you can do something useful for a change -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidereal_day


I do not mind the steps taken to correct matters ,that is the whole
point of the exercise, but that assault on the eyes should not be seen
by children even though it has stood for a month.

Sidereal time is an observational convenience based on the return of a
star constantly in 23 hours 56 minutes 04 seconds averaged out over
365/366 days where a star returns to the same spot 3 minutes 56
seconds earlier as calculated by the average 24 hour day.The only
criteria is that it cannot express daily rotation or orbital
dynamics .

On Jun 29, 12:58*pm, oriel36 wrote:
On Jun 29, 7:30*pm, palsing wrote:





On Jun 29, 11:14*am, oriel36 wrote:

Thankfully people are coming to their senses and signs of green shoots
are appearing *-

http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/lin.../earth2.html&e...

Yes they haven't fully explained how *daily rotation, rotational
orientation and orbital specifics combine to generate the seasons but
nobody is happier than I am to see the movement towards teaching kids
properly about these things.

A simple addition would be to explain where the 24 hour day comes from
and how the days roll seamlessly into each other,no huge intricate
explanation but the simple difference between natural noon and 24 hour
noon.

Nothing new here, everyone agrees with all of this... except that the
author of this page, when he said "The Earth rotates around once in 24
hours", forgot to include the phrase "with respect to the sun..."
Otherwise, he is perfectly correct.

The reason nothing was mentioned about the orbital specific is
because, of course, there is no such thing. The Earth simply does what
it does, and all we can do is observe it and then try to make a model
that explains it, and then observe some more and refine the model. The
dead 17th century guys pretty much had it right, the modern guys
simply have refined the measurements to many decimal places...

Frames, Gerald, you need to understand frames...

"It's all to do with the training: you can do a lot if you're properly
trained."
- Queen Elizabeth II

\Paul A

You get the trekkie to remove that entire section he wrote in
Wikipedia,that is how you can do something useful for a change -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidereal_day

I do not mind the steps taken to correct matters ,that is the whole
point of the exercise, but that assault on the eyes should not be seen
by children even though it has stood for a month.

Sidereal time is an observational convenience based on the return of a
star constantly in 23 hours 56 minutes 04 seconds averaged out over
365/366 days where a star returns to the same spot 3 minutes 56
seconds earlier as calculated by the average 24 hour day.The only
criteria is that it cannot express daily rotation or orbital
dynamics .- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

No, Sidereal time is NOT an observational convenience, it is an
observational reality, and has nothing to do with averaging anything.
Any idiot with a stopwatch, including you, can show this, night after
night, choosing any star of his liking, and it has nothing whatsoever
to do with the Solar Day, they are unrelated. This is just an
inescapable fact, even if the data is empirical, which we all know you
reject. No amount if "intuative intelligence" will change this, it is
what it is, and you need to deal with it.

The Trekkie's Wiki modification is correct. If you think it is so
wrong, well, write your own Wiki entry on, let's say, your peculiar
"orbital specific", and see what kind of response you get from the
public at-large.

It is frustrating trying to teach something to someone like you, who
is totally unteachable.

"It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how
smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong,"
- Richard P. Feynman

\Paul A

On Jun 29, 9:51*pm, palsing wrote:


The Trekkie's Wiki modification is correct.

\Paul A

You know what,you deserve each other but just don't call yourselves
astronomers -

"Because the Earth orbits the Sun once a year, the sidereal time at
any one place at midnight will be about four minutes later each night,
until, after a year has passed, one additional sidereal day has
transpired compared to the number of solar days that have gone by."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidereal_day

On Jun 29, 2:13*pm, oriel36 wrote:
On Jun 29, 9:51*pm, palsing wrote:

The Trekkie's Wiki modification is correct.

\Paul A

You know what,you deserve each other but just don't call yourselves
astronomers -

"Because the Earth orbits the Sun once a year, the sidereal time at
any one place at midnight will be about four minutes later each night,
until, after a year has passed, one additional sidereal day has
transpired compared to the number of solar days that have gone by."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidereal_day

Errr, so?

Although I know you think you understand what you thought he said, I'm
not so sure that you realize that what you read is not what he meant.

Admittedly, it reads a little rough. The point is, since the Sidereal
Day loses almost 4 minutes a day to the Solar Day, if you multiply
those almost 4 minutes by 365 you get almost exactly 24 hours lost,
which is the equivalent to another whole Sidereal Day, so there are
almost exactly (1) more Sidereal Days than there are Solar Days.

So what? This is just coincidental, if the Earth were to rotate a
little faster or slower, then the length of the Sidereal Day could be
very different than the Solar Day. maybe if that were the case you
could understand all of this easier.

\Paul A

You know what,you deserve each other but just don't call yourselves
astronomers -

No, sir, you're the one who's not an astronomer. By your definition (?),
there hasn't been a real astronomer in 300 years -- except you. You
compound willful ignorance with arrogance. Paul is correct about sidereal
time: it's more than a convenience. It's an observable reality. Before the
days of computer-driven goto telescopes, astronomers regularly consulted
sidereal clocks to locate objects and to predict where they would be in the
night sky. The drive gears on telescopes, including the gearless drives on
the newest mounts, work in sidereal time. Computerized mounts feed a
tracking rate to the gears based upon sidereal time. It works because it's
the rate that keeps the star in the crosshairs or on the autoguiding chip.
No other rate works, because no other rate tracks the star. You can spew
on ad infinitum about nonsense such as "orbital specific" -- and you do,
regardless of the topic of the thread-- but your verifiably mistaken
beliefs -- to the degree that they're decipherable -- don't become true
through repetition. They're as wrong the one millionth time as they were
the first.
--
Curtis Croulet
Temecula, California

oriel36 wrote:

On Jun 29, 9:51*pm, palsing wrote:

The Trekkie's Wiki modification is correct.

You know what,you deserve each other but just don't call yourselves
astronomers -

"Because the Earth orbits the Sun once a year, the sidereal time at
any one place at midnight will be about four minutes later each night,
until, after a year has passed, one additional sidereal day has
transpired compared to the number of solar days that have gone by."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidereal_day

What do you have against that? That's how the universe works.

You could always watch and learn:
http://www.typnet.net/Essays/EarthRot.htm#MultiCam

--
Dave

On Jun 30, 12:19*am, Dave Typinski wrote:

What do you have against that? *That's how the universe works.

Somewhere, sometime, in another universe, Feckwit may be right.

But in that universe MJ and OJ were both found guilty as charged.

Religion is a girl's ball game and some politicians are honest.

palsing wrote:

On Jun 29, 2:13 pm, oriel36 wrote:

On Jun 29, 9:51 pm, palsing wrote:


The Trekkie's Wiki modification is correct.

\Paul A

You know what,you deserve each other but just don't call yourselves
astronomers -

"Because the Earth orbits the Sun once a year, the sidereal time at
any one place at midnight will be about four minutes later each night,
until, after a year has passed, one additional sidereal day has
transpired compared to the number of solar days that have gone by."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidereal_day


Errr, so?

Although I know you think you understand what you thought he said, I'm
not so sure that you realize that what you read is not what he meant.

Admittedly, it reads a little rough. The point is, since the Sidereal
Day loses almost 4 minutes a day to the Solar Day, if you multiply
those almost 4 minutes by 365 you get almost exactly 24 hours lost,
which is the equivalent to another whole Sidereal Day, so there are
almost exactly (1) more Sidereal Days than there are Solar Days.

So what? This is just coincidental, if the Earth were to rotate a
little faster or slower, then the length of the Sidereal Day could be
very different than the Solar Day. maybe if that were the case you
could understand all of this easier.

\Paul A

Perhaps someone here can make a computer animated graphic to illustrate
your last point. It might be an eye opener for Gerald.