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The problem of investigating life on moons that could host it



 
 
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  #11  
Old July 3rd 18, 10:04 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris.B[_3_]
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Default The problem of investigating life on moons that could host it

On Monday, 2 July 2018 19:17:24 UTC+2, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:


In short, your question is stupid. (And so are you, but we knew
that already.)


Construct a sentence as an example of irony.

I know you are, but what am I?


Construct a sentence to simultaneously illustrate tedious repetition, irony and hypocrisy.

You have 15 minute to complete this test, starting.. Now!
  #12  
Old July 3rd 18, 04:41 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
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Posts: 331
Default The problem of investigating life on moons that could host it

I know you are, but what am I?


"Chris.B" wrote in
:

On Monday, 2 July 2018 19:17:24 UTC+2, Jibini Kula Tumbili
Kujisalimisha wrote:


In short, your question is stupid. (And so are you, but we
knew that already.)

Construct a sentence as an example of irony.

I know you are, but what am I?


Construct a sentence to simultaneously illustrate tedious
repetition, irony and hypocrisy.

You have 15 minute to complete this test, starting.. Now!




--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

  #13  
Old July 4th 18, 10:14 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Mike Collins[_4_]
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Default The problem of investigating life on moons that could host it

Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
I know you are, but what am I?


"Chris.B" wrote in
:

On Monday, 2 July 2018 19:17:24 UTC+2, Jibini Kula Tumbili
Kujisalimisha wrote:


In short, your question is stupid. (And so are you, but we
knew that already.)

Construct a sentence as an example of irony.

I know you are, but what am I?


Construct a sentence to simultaneously illustrate tedious
repetition, irony and hypocrisy.

You have 15 minute to complete this test, starting.. Now!





Predictable.


  #14  
Old July 4th 18, 08:01 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Martin Brown[_3_]
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Posts: 189
Default The problem of investigating life on moons that could host it

On 02/07/2018 17:21, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
RichA wrote in
:

On Friday, 29 June 2018 20:23:30 UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 17:14:01 -0700 (PDT), RichA
wrote:

So they send a mission to Enceladus. They find no life. "Ah
well, mayb

e the equipment isn't good enough yet?" 10 years pass, another
mission is sent. This time they find bacteria and viruses. Now,
was this missed the first time around, or was it evolved
contamination from the first ship?

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-44630121

All life on Earth evolved from a single common ancestor, and
shares a huge amount of common genetic coding. Anything we
leave behind will be readily identifiable as originating on
Earth. Even if alien life uses the same genetic chemistry as
Earth life, there's no chance it's going to code for the same
genes (and especially for all the inactive segments).


Unless panspermia is right and it came from the same comet,
comet swarm, etc.


If it's contamination from the previous probe, there will be
virtually zero genetic shift from the parent. If it's native, even
if it is carbon based (highly likely), even if it uses the same
gentic bases, even if it uses DNA, it will be at least as different
from anything on earth as the variation within earth based bacteria
and viruses, and will match none of them.

The odds of bacteria evolving separately that are that similar to
ours are pretty slim. The odds of them being *identical* are
indistinguishable from zero.


They might not be in terms of what extremophiles have to look like in
order to survive in that environment. More than one plant family has
solved the environmental constraints of living in a desert and reached
the same physical shape as the optimum solution.

African euphorbia gymnocaliciodes being a canonical example - literally
named as the euphorbia that looks like an Amaerican gymnocalcium cactus.
They evolved on separate continents to fill the same ecological niche.

http://www.cactus-art.biz/schede/EUP...alycioides.htm

http://www.cactus-art.biz/schede/GYM..._baldianum.htm

The spines are not as long on the euphorbia but then it has the benefit
of chemical weapons with caustic toxic sap.

There are euphorbias that mimic the design of columnar cereus cacti too.


In short, your question is stupid. (And so are you, but we knew
that already.)


Not sure it is that stupid. They got back viable microbe spores from the
lunar lander camera that the Apollo 12 team went to look at on the moon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survey..._contamination

It is unclear whether this was real or a later contamination but it
altered NASA policy on trying much harder not to contaminate pristine
worlds with possibly habitable conditions with terrestrial microbes.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
  #15  
Old July 4th 18, 10:07 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris L Peterson
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Posts: 10,007
Default The problem of investigating life on moons that could host it

On Wed, 4 Jul 2018 20:01:49 +0100, Martin Brown

The odds of bacteria evolving separately that are that similar to
ours are pretty slim. The odds of them being *identical* are
indistinguishable from zero.


They might not be in terms of what extremophiles have to look like in
order to survive in that environment. More than one plant family has
solved the environmental constraints of living in a desert and reached
the same physical shape as the optimum solution.


I would say we've never observed an "optimum solution" in any
organism, and evolution does not deliver optimal solutions.

An organism on another planet might reach a similar phenotypical
solution to an Earth organism in a similar environment. It is beyond
reason it would share a similar genetic code, however.
  #17  
Old July 5th 18, 06:26 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
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Posts: 331
Default The problem of investigating life on moons that could host it

Martin Brown wrote in
news
On 02/07/2018 17:21, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
RichA wrote in
:

On Friday, 29 June 2018 20:23:30 UTC-4, Chris L Peterson
wrote:
On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 17:14:01 -0700 (PDT), RichA
wrote:

So they send a mission to Enceladus. They find no life.
"Ah well, mayb
e the equipment isn't good enough yet?" 10 years pass,
another mission is sent. This time they find bacteria and
viruses. Now, was this missed the first time around, or was
it evolved contamination from the first ship?

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-44630121

All life on Earth evolved from a single common ancestor, and
shares a huge amount of common genetic coding. Anything we
leave behind will be readily identifiable as originating on
Earth. Even if alien life uses the same genetic chemistry as
Earth life, there's no chance it's going to code for the same
genes (and especially for all the inactive segments).

Unless panspermia is right and it came from the same comet,
comet swarm, etc.


If it's contamination from the previous probe, there will be
virtually zero genetic shift from the parent. If it's native,
even if it is carbon based (highly likely), even if it uses the
same gentic bases, even if it uses DNA, it will be at least as
different from anything on earth as the variation within earth
based bacteria and viruses, and will match none of them.

The odds of bacteria evolving separately that are that similar
to ours are pretty slim. The odds of them being *identical* are
indistinguishable from zero.


They might not be in terms of what extremophiles have to look
like in order to survive in that environment. More than one
plant family has solved the environmental constraints of living
in a desert and reached the same physical shape as the optimum
solution.


Physical shape isn't DNA. I'm pretty sure the scientists at NASA
know it, too.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

  #20  
Old July 18th 18, 03:50 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
RichA[_6_]
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Posts: 1,076
Default The problem of investigating life on moons that could host it

On Friday, 29 June 2018 20:14:03 UTC-4, RichA wrote:
So they send a mission to Enceladus. They find no life. "Ah well, maybe the equipment isn't good enough yet?" 10 years pass, another mission is sent. This time they find bacteria and viruses. Now, was this missed the first time around, or was it evolved contamination from the first ship?

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-44630121


Oh look!

https://www.skyandtelescope.com/astr...-for-revision/

 




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