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Buran landing & night launch video



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 16th 10, 11:58 PM posted to sci.space.history
Joe Snodgrass
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Default Buran landing & night launch video


Notice how close it was to the ground, before it pulled out of the
steep descent. And why do the tail nacelles look so much like jet
engines?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gjubQ7SB8I
  #2  
Old December 17th 10, 12:58 AM posted to sci.space.history
Damon Hill[_4_]
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Default Buran landing & night launch video

Joe Snodgrass wrote in news:8fad398c-90fd-46df-8f8b-
:


Notice how close it was to the ground, before it pulled out of the
steep descent. And why do the tail nacelles look so much like jet
engines?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gjubQ7SB8I


Because they were jet engines.

However, the initial footage was not of the Buran orbiter but a
manned trainer/analog with four turbojet engines capable of making
a horizontal takeoff and powered landing. Engines were considered
for both Shuttle and actual Buran orbiters, but were deleted to
save weight and complexity.

Shuttle also makes steep descents before leveling out at fairly
low altitude.

--Damon
  #3  
Old December 17th 10, 03:59 AM posted to sci.space.history
Pat Flannery
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Default Buran landing & night launch video

On 12/16/2010 3:58 PM, Damon Hill wrote:

Because they were jet engines.

However, the initial footage was not of the Buran orbiter but a
manned trainer/analog with four turbojet engines capable of making
a horizontal takeoff and powered landing. Engines were considered
for both Shuttle and actual Buran orbiters, but were deleted to
save weight and complexity.


The operational one would have had only the two top engines on the sides
of the vertical fin to allow it to fly for a considerable distance to a
landing, but was not able to take off under its own power.
Some translated info on the jet prototype and its engines he
http://tinyurl.com/2dodokr
http://tinyurl.com/2bhysn9
They were thinking of reinstalling the top jet engines on the orbiter at
some point down the line if the Buran shuttles had become operational.

Pat


  #4  
Old December 17th 10, 05:09 AM posted to sci.space.history
Damon Hill[_4_]
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Posts: 566
Default Buran landing & night launch video

Pat Flannery wrote in news:w-
hdakotatelephone:

On 12/16/2010 3:58 PM, Damon Hill wrote:

Because they were jet engines.

However, the initial footage was not of the Buran orbiter but a
manned trainer/analog with four turbojet engines capable of making
a horizontal takeoff and powered landing. Engines were considered
for both Shuttle and actual Buran orbiters, but were deleted to
save weight and complexity.


The operational one would have had only the two top engines on the sides
of the vertical fin to allow it to fly for a considerable distance to a
landing, but was not able to take off under its own power.
Some translated info on the jet prototype and its engines he
http://tinyurl.com/2dodokr
http://tinyurl.com/2bhysn9
They were thinking of reinstalling the top jet engines on the orbiter at
some point down the line if the Buran shuttles had become operational.


Wondering if the four-engine version had any significant payload for
additional fuel, and/or if a version with the same rocket engines as
the flight version could have reached supersonic or even low hypersonic
speeds--perhaps with aerial refueling?

Transfer of LOX might have been tricky and probably no real point in the
whole exercise.

--Damon

  #5  
Old December 17th 10, 09:24 AM posted to sci.space.history
Jochem Huhmann
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Posts: 606
Default Buran landing & night launch video

Damon Hill writes:

Wondering if the four-engine version had any significant payload for
additional fuel, and/or if a version with the same rocket engines as
the flight version could have reached supersonic or even low hypersonic
speeds--perhaps with aerial refueling?


The flight version had no rocket engines apart from RCS and OMS -- the
main engines were in the booster core (this was not just an external
tank as with STS but a full booster).

Transfer of LOX might have been tricky and probably no real point in the
whole exercise.


This, too.


Jochem

--
"A designer knows he has arrived at perfection not when there is no
longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
  #6  
Old December 17th 10, 03:00 PM posted to sci.space.history
Pat Flannery
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Posts: 18,465
Default Buran landing & night launch video

On 12/16/2010 8:09 PM, Damon Hill wrote:

They were thinking of reinstalling the top jet engines on the orbiter at
some point down the line if the Buran shuttles had become operational.


Wondering if the four-engine version had any significant payload for
additional fuel, and/or if a version with the same rocket engines as
the flight version could have reached supersonic or even low hypersonic
speeds--perhaps with aerial refueling?


I get the impression that it was struggling just to get into the air,
much less go supersonic.
Its longest flight was only 32 minutes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OK-GLI
....and it only carried fuel for 30 minutes of powered flight.
The orbital maneuvering engines didn't generate that much thrust; 17,600
kgf total (I don't even think real ones were installed on the
jet-powered test version), and the wing leading edge was way too rounded
and thick for accelerating to supersonic speed in level flight, and the
nose was pretty high drag also. One has to remember that you _want_ to
have a shuttle lose most of its speed via air drag on the way back for
landing as it descends. The Space Shuttle does wide banking turns during
reentry and landing to bleed off airspeed:
http://www.columbiassacrifice.com/im...athDiagram.gif

Pat


Pat
  #7  
Old December 17th 10, 03:20 PM posted to sci.space.history
Pat Flannery
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Posts: 18,465
Default Buran landing & night launch video

On 12/17/2010 12:24 AM, Jochem Huhmann wrote:


The flight version had no rocket engines apart from RCS and OMS -- the
main engines were in the booster core (this was not just an external
tank as with STS but a full booster).


One interesting thing is that Russia was trying hard to eliminate the
use of toxic hypergolic propellants in all of its launch vehicles at the
time, because of criticism by environmentalists and lawsuits by
Kazakhstanies who had Proton stages come down on their land.
Both the OMS engines and RCS system on Buran ran off of Lox/Kerosene.
There's video of them cranking up one of the OMS engines and the RCS
thrusters on this translated webpage:
http://tinyurl.com/336odzo

Pat
  #8  
Old December 17th 10, 03:46 PM posted to sci.space.history
Pat Flannery
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Posts: 18,465
Default Buran landing & night launch video

On 12/17/2010 6:20 AM, Pat Flannery wrote:

http://tinyurl.com/336odzo


BTW, the "Synthol" mentioned on that webpage was a synthetic kerosene
replacement that had a higher specific impulse, developed to allow the
Soyuz booster to carry more payload into orbit. It was also known as
"Sintin".
Unfortunately, when the Soviet Union collapsed the only factory that
produced it ended up in another country, and Russia no longer had access
to it.

Pat

  #9  
Old December 17th 10, 04:29 PM posted to sci.space.history
[email protected][_1_]
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Posts: 157
Default Buran landing & night launch video

The Space Shuttle does wide banking turns during reentry and landing to bleed off airspeed...

As does, FWIW, X-37B, though I don't know how the trajectory compares
to the Shuttle's in terms of number and width of turns.
 




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