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Observatory Mounts
What observatory mounts could be used for a Dobsdonian that could be
computer controlled? |
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Observatory Mounts
"Macro" wrote in message ps.com... What observatory mounts could be used for a Dobsdonian that could be computer controlled? The term "Dobsonian" describes a mount, not a telescope. What we commonly call a "Dobsonian reflector," a "Dobsonian," or a "Dob" is actually a Newtonian reflector on a Dobsonian mount. If you want to use a reflector in your observatory, you could mount it on a motor-driven equatorial mount. Go to the Orion Telescopes website and look at their reflector scopes: These are "Dobsonians:" http://www.telescope.com/jump.jsp?it...EGORY&itemID=9 And these are reflectors mounted on equatorial or alt-az mounts (except for the StarBlast, which is a miniature Dob): http://www.telescope.com/jump.jsp?it...List=&oldList= The optical tube assemblies (OTA) are the very same for the Dobs or for the equatorial mounted scopes. |
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Observatory Mounts
Macro posted:
What observatory mounts could be used for a Dobsdonian that could be computer controlled? Well, the term "Dobsonian" often refers to a Newtonian on a simple altitude-azimuth or "altazimuth" mount, moving much like that of a gun turret on a ship. The mount is not really an "observatory mount" so much as it is a simple altazimuth with open-faced altitude bearings and a rocker-box to hold the bearings and to provide rotation on the azimuth axis. Some moderate to large aperture Dobsonians can be computer controlled via the Argo-Navis Digital Telescope Computer system: http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au/ Some can also be equipped with the SERVOCAT drive system which allows for both Go-To operation as well as tracking in the altazimuth mode. http://www.webstertelescopes.com/servocat.htm Clear skies to you. -- David W. Knisely Prairie Astronomy Club: http://www.prairieastronomyclub.org Hyde Memorial Observatory: http://www.hydeobservatory.info/ ********************************************** * Attend the 14th Annual NEBRASKA STAR PARTY * * July 15th-20th, 2007, Merritt Reservoir * * http://www.NebraskaStarParty.org * ********************************************** |
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Joe S. posted:
The term "Dobsonian" describes a mount, not a telescope. What we commonly call a "Dobsonian reflector," a "Dobsonian," or a "Dob" is actually a Newtonian reflector on a Dobsonian mount. Actually, the word "Dobsonian" has evolved over time and has never really been formally defined. It is frequently used to refer to both the entire telescope system (a Newtonian on a simple altazimuth mount) as well as for the mount, although few refractors that are mounted altazimuthly using the Dob-style mount are referred to as "Dobsonians". Technically, the mount should be called an altazimuth, although Dobson's simple design does put in some interesting wrinkles into the altazimuth, like the open-faced altitude bearings and simple rocker-box azimuth motion. Many companies refer to their altazimuth Newtonians as "Dobsonians", rather than Newtonians on a Dobsonian mount. Clear skies to you. -- David W. Knisely Prairie Astronomy Club: http://www.prairieastronomyclub.org Hyde Memorial Observatory: http://www.hydeobservatory.info/ ********************************************** * Attend the 14th Annual NEBRASKA STAR PARTY * * July 15th-20th, 2007, Merritt Reservoir * * http://www.NebraskaStarParty.org * ********************************************** |
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David Knisely wrote:
Actually, the word "Dobsonian" has evolved over time and has never really been formally defined. Yup--and is a point of some contention with folks. Going by what people actually seem to mean when they use the term, rather than what people think it ought to mean, it's a Newtonian on a rocker-box altazimuth mount that rests on the ground (or possibly on a platform). Other optical tubes seem to be said to be on a Dobsonian-style mount, or (as you say) simply an altazimuth mount. -- Brian Tung The Astronomy Corner at http://astro.isi.edu/ Unofficial C5+ Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/c5plus/ The PleiadAtlas Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/pleiadatlas/ My Own Personal FAQ (SAA) at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.html |
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On Sep 11, 4:07 pm, Macro wrote:
What observatory mounts could be used for a Dobsdonian that could be computer controlled? Some of this may go over your head; but just file it away for future reference as you look at mount options. If you go the route of converting your Dob mounted Newt to a German equatorial mount (GEM), you'll need the info in the future. Newts can be removed from their alt-az boxes and converted for mounting on a GEM. WRT German equatorial mounts and a 10" Newt, I using a Synta EQ6 - which is the manufacturer's name for Orion's branded Altas EQ6 mount. ( http://www.skywatchertelescope.com/EQ6SkyScan.html ) This is a lower cost-end mount with good tracking ability. This mount can be computer controlled through a laptop by most planetarium programs through the ASCOM open source telescope interface. ( http://ascom-standards.org/index.html ) In general, ASCOM emulates a Celestron Nextstar 5i, 8i or Ultima - which can be used by most planetarium programs. The only hardware add-on usually is a Belkan USB to serial converter. ( http://www3.shopping.com/xPO-Belkin-...pter-F5U409-CU ) The 10" Newt did not auto-target properly out of the box using the Syntax EQ6 mount. An additional extra-heavy duty mounting bar ($175) had to be purchased to reduce tube and mounting bar flexure that prevented good perpendicular alignment. The mount will probably work out of the box with a lighter 8" Newt and is very popular for astrophotography using relatively lighter 5 1/4 to 6 inch refractors because of its good tracking ability. If you buy this mount, make sure you purchase only a newer model with a hand-controller with version 3.10 software or higher. Used Syntax EQ6s mounts with pre-3.02 handcontrollers can not be software upgraded and have a defective hand-controller software design (non-synching dedicated communications mode). The pre-version 3.02 hand-controller cannot be used effectively when connected to a laptop program. In general, Newts take more aligning effort and skill to properly remove perpendicular error and to keep the scope properly aligned - as compared to SCTs or refractors. This is because the Newt mirror is tilted slighty off-axis relative to the physical tube. The objective in SCTs and refractors are not tilted and the optical axis and the tube exterior are both parallel to the optical axis. Celestron's analgous computer-controlled product is the more expensive CGE mount. ( http://www.celestron.com/c2/product....D=16&ProdID=93 ) I am not personally familiar with that GEM mount but have heard good comments about and seen good performance of this mount at star parties. I am not sufficiently familar with Meade products to identify their GEM version. There is a price vs. tracking error trade off. Spend more money - get less tracking error. That's an economic selection that you have make. To some extent, modern low-end autoguiding mounts can adequately compensate for tracking error during astrophotography to a degree that makes them a performance alternative to higher-end mounts. For auto-guiding, a Guidedog USB autoguiding adapter is added to the Synta EQ-6 (or other GEM) mount. ( http://www.barkosoftware.com/GuideDog/ ) This autoguiding product is not directly compatible with autoguiding feature of Meade's imaging software, e.g. Envisage. Third-party freeware add-ins will let you autoguide on-axis through the Meade software - ported through the ASCOM interface and the Guidedog USB adapter. Typically, a second off-axis scope and a separate web camera are used for autoguiding Newts, rather than on-axis guiding. - Canopus |
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Brian Tung wrote:
David Knisely wrote: Actually, the word "Dobsonian" has evolved over time and has never really been formally defined. Yup--and is a point of some contention with folks. Going by what people actually seem to mean when they use the term, rather than what people think it ought to mean, it's a Newtonian on a rocker-box altazimuth mount that rests on the ground (or possibly on a platform). Other optical tubes seem to be said to be on a Dobsonian-style mount, or (as you say) simply an altazimuth mount. Hi, Brian and David. Maybe there's a variety of usages here also found in other areas. For example, to most people, a "bulldozer" means the whole vehicle, both the tractor and the bulldozer attachment. To someone in the trade, however, it would be more precise to speak of a "tractor-bulldozer," with the term "bulldozer" properly referring to the attachment. Similarly, the term "Dobsonian" might more properly refer to the mount, typically used for a Newtonian but possibly for some other kind of OTA. However, like "bulldozer," Dobsonian has come often to mean the whole telescope, including a specifically Newtonian OTA plus the mount. Dobson himself prefers "sidewalk telescope," which presumably relates to mount and OTA together -- so that if people thought, "Dobson's sidewalk telescope," and from there "Dobsonian telescope," then using the term for the whole telescope as well as the mount would seem logical. The other side, of course, is that it's the mount that's more _distinctively_ "Dobsonian," since Newtonian reflectors had a rather long history before Dobson championed the design that bears his name. An interesting question is whether "Dobsonian" has any connotations that attach to the type of Newtonian OTA involved -- that is, things not inherent in the definition, but often suggested by it. One thing I'd suspect people often associate with a "Dobsonian" is relatively fast optics, or a rich-field telescope, say f/7 or faster. Maybe this was especially characteristic of the large Dobsonians that became practical in the first decades of the design on the amateur market (e.g. Coulter, discussed in another thread). Of course, a 6" f/8 Dobsonian isn't so "rich field," but is still a Dobsonian, so this is more a kind of frequent association than a set characteristic. Anyway, it is interesting to examine these usages and get different people's takes on the "Dobsonian" concept. Most appreciatively, Margo Schulter Lat. 38.566 Long. -121.430 |
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canopus56 wrote:
Newts can be removed from their alt-az boxes and converted for mounting on a GEM. Well, with some Dobs, this may be possible, but not with the larger "sling" mirror cell units like the Obsessions. These cells are designed only to work in the altazimuth configuration, as they use gravity to hold the mirror down in the sling. To convert one to equatorial use would require an entirely new mirror cell that is capable of supporting the mirror from all sides regardless of its orientation. Clear skies to you. -- David W. Knisely Prairie Astronomy Club: http://www.prairieastronomyclub.org Hyde Memorial Observatory: http://www.hydeobservatory.info/ ********************************************** * Attend the 14th Annual NEBRASKA STAR PARTY * * July 15th-20th, 2007, Merritt Reservoir * * http://www.NebraskaStarParty.org * ********************************************** |
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On 12 Sep 2007 20:46:38 GMT, Margo Schulter
wrote: Anyway, it is interesting to examine these usages and get different people's takes on the "Dobsonian" concept. Altaz mounts, including simple ones, were around long before Dobson. As, of course, were Newts of all sorts. To me, a Dobsonian is: 1) a Newtonian telescope made from inexpensive materials; 2) a simple altaz mount utilizing passive bearing surfaces; 3) a design philosophy based around simple and inexpensive to construct. Hence, in my view, once you motorize the mount it is no longer a Dob. _________________________________________________ Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com |
#10
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Observatory Mounts
"Margo Schulter" wrote in message
... Brian Tung wrote: David Knisely wrote: Actually, the word "Dobsonian" has evolved over time and has never really been formally defined. Yup--and is a point of some contention with folks. Going by what people actually seem to mean when they use the term, rather than what people think it ought to mean, it's a Newtonian on a rocker-box altazimuth mount that rests on the ground (or possibly on a platform). Other optical tubes seem to be said to be on a Dobsonian-style mount, or (as you say) simply an altazimuth mount. Hi, Brian and David. Maybe there's a variety of usages here also found in other areas. For example, to most people, a "bulldozer" means the whole vehicle, both the tractor and the bulldozer attachment. To someone in the trade, however, it would be more precise to speak of a "tractor-bulldozer," with the term "bulldozer" properly referring to the attachment. Similarly, the term "Dobsonian" might more properly refer to the mount, typically used for a Newtonian but possibly for some other kind of OTA. However, like "bulldozer," Dobsonian has come often to mean the whole telescope, including a specifically Newtonian OTA plus the mount. Dobson himself prefers "sidewalk telescope," which presumably relates to mount and OTA together -- so that if people thought, "Dobson's sidewalk telescope," and from there "Dobsonian telescope," then using the term for the whole telescope as well as the mount would seem logical. The other side, of course, is that it's the mount that's more _distinctively_ "Dobsonian," since Newtonian reflectors had a rather long history before Dobson championed the design that bears his name. An interesting question is whether "Dobsonian" has any connotations that attach to the type of Newtonian OTA involved -- that is, things not inherent in the definition, but often suggested by it. One thing I'd suspect people often associate with a "Dobsonian" is relatively fast optics, or a rich-field telescope, say f/7 or faster. Maybe this was especially characteristic of the large Dobsonians that became practical in the first decades of the design on the amateur market (e.g. Coulter, discussed in another thread). Of course, a 6" f/8 Dobsonian isn't so "rich field," but is still a Dobsonian, so this is more a kind of frequent association than a set characteristic. Anyway, it is interesting to examine these usages and get different people's takes on the "Dobsonian" concept. Most appreciatively, Margo Schulter Lat. 38.566 Long. -121.430 Today's "Dobsonian" telescopes have EVOLVED into relatively short focal length instruments. But most of the originals were far from Rich Field, short focal ratio scopes... Even in large aperture Newtonians, f/8 was not an unusual focal ratio in the dim times... But improvements in mirror making and mirror mounting, have resulted in evolving mount designs that have drifted toward shorter and shorter focal ratios to allow more and more aperture in smaller and smaller packages, without sacrificing structural rigidity or operational smoothness, without backlash, in both axes... In some respects, the newer scopes are better, but in some cases they are not. Yet, most of them ARE different, while sharing some common basics... Personally, I think we spend WAY too much time worrying about the minute details of what to call them and why. It's a design many folks have found to be very useful, and many of THOSE folks have found things they can do to make it work for THEM, even better. That's evolution... The fact that it's based on the mechanics of old cannons just further emphasizes the evolution of the design... Not to worry... We'll likely still be calling scopes of this basic design Dobsonians long after most folks have ANY idea where the name came from... -- Jan Owen To reach me directly, remove the Z, if one appears in my e-mail address... Latitude: 33.6 Longitude: -112.3 http://community.webshots.com/user/janowen21 |
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