|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#111
|
|||
|
|||
Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.
On 7/10/2017 9:32 AM, Edward Prochak wrote:
On Saturday, July 8, 2017 at 9:04:04 PM UTC-4, Lofty Goat wrote: On Fri, 7 Jul 2017 08:00:04 -0700 (PDT), Edward Prochak wrote: ... electric motors are much more complex than combustion motors.... What measure of complexity are you using? -- Goat This is in the context of 3-d printing. The mixture of materials makes electric motors much more complex than combustion engines. combustion engines are all metal. electric motors have metal and insulating material. That's the measure. ed you have low temp melting materials, adjacent to high temp melting materials. How do you print an insulated length of round wire from a normal direction to its axis ? assume copper and teflon. --- The possibility of 3D-printing insulated wiring could be tested by first testing in plastics. Plastic 3D-printing does have the capability of printing with different materials side by side: How It's Used - Multi-Materials with PolyJet. http://www.stratasys.com/solutions/a...al-3d-printing The key point that needs to be tested is if there could be 3D-printed multiple coils of a "wire" with one material inside the emulating the copper with a different material on the outside emulating the insulation. Bob Clark ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Finally, nanotechnology can now fulfill its potential to revolutionize 21st-century technology, from the space elevator, to private, orbital launchers, to 'flying cars'. This crowdfunding campaign is to prove it: Nanotech: from air to space. https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/n...ce/x/13319568/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- |
#112
|
|||
|
|||
Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.
On Mon, 10 Jul 2017 12:44:12 -0700, Fred J. McCall
wrote: wrote: On Sun, 09 Jul 2017 21:55:19 -0600, Greg Goss wrote: wrote: Composites are widely used all over the place. Many of them the Chimp probably thinks of as 'traditional materials'. Both concrete and mortar are composite materials and we've been using that stuff since the Romans. Composites of various types are used all over the place, from piping to appliances to aircraft to construction materials. Oh, good grief. I suppose you're going to tell me that a concrete pump is a 3-D printer, too. Hook it to the right controller and it is. I saw a youtube of someone printing a kid's playcastle using a concrete pump device of some kind. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQ5Elbvvr1M Don't be an idiot. The thread is clearly about modern marvels, like carbon fiber, not concrete. Geez, people turn intentionally stupid when they run out of ideas (like leftists). The word being used is 'composites'. Unlike you, I don't try to read peoples' minds to discover that they don't really mean 'composites' at all. I take them at their word and assume that if they mean 'carbon fiber' they will say that rather than 'composites'. Don't need to read anyone's mind but you do have to read the ****ing thread! ...if you're able. |
#114
|
|||
|
|||
Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.
On 7/10/2017 4:40 PM, Robert Clark wrote:
On 7/10/2017 9:32 AM, Edward Prochak wrote: On Saturday, July 8, 2017 at 9:04:04 PM UTC-4, Lofty Goat wrote: On Fri, 7 Jul 2017 08:00:04 -0700 (PDT), Edward Prochak wrote: ... electric motors are much more complex than combustion motors.... What measure of complexity are you using? -- Goat This is in the context of 3-d printing. The mixture of materials makes electric motors much more complex than combustion engines. combustion engines are all metal. electric motors have metal and insulating material. That's the measure. ed you have low temp melting materials, adjacent to high temp melting materials. How do you print an insulated length of round wire from a normal direction to its axis ? assume copper and teflon. --- The possibility of 3D-printing insulated wiring could be tested by first testing in plastics. Plastic 3D-printing does have the capability of printing with different materials side by side: How It's Used - Multi-Materials with PolyJet. http://www.stratasys.com/solutions/a...al-3d-printing The key point that needs to be tested is if there could be 3D-printed multiple coils of a "wire" with one material inside the emulating the copper with a different material on the outside emulating the insulation. Bob Clark a 3D printing rule, you can only print on something with the same or higher melting point. can't print a high melting point material onto a low melting point material. that is a major limitation |
#115
|
|||
|
|||
Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.
In sci.physics wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jul 2017 17:31:57 -0000, wrote: In sci.physics wrote: On Mon, 10 Jul 2017 05:08:51 -0000, wrote: In sci.physics Greg Goss wrote: wrote: Marketing types certainly do. Consumers have always bought toasters based on their looks. After all, the thousands of different designs all do the same thing. And all look about the same. Not so much: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/437412182539227477/ For any given era they look pretty much the same to me. https://www.google.com/search?q=toas...w=1327&bih=868 You'd argue that every color is the same? No, but most are chrome. I haven't bought a chrome one in a long time. These days they all have an outer plastic layer. The only chrome you see is less than an inch around the slots/ In the link I gave above, most of the toasters shown are in fact chrome. From 3/4 of a century ago, sure. Styles change and that's exactly the point. The statement being refuted is that all toasters "look pretty much the same", which is simply BS. https://www.walmart.com/search/?quer...&typeahead=toa What is currently on sale at Walmart, the majority of which are chrome or stainless steel and are roughly a cubical box with 2 or 4 slots in the top. More BS in an attempt to hide the smell from previous BS. Blazingly obvious to the most casual observer than has viewed the URL's, of which there now has been two. -- Jim Pennino |
#116
|
|||
|
|||
Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.
wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jul 2017 12:44:12 -0700, Fred J. McCall wrote: wrote: On Sun, 09 Jul 2017 21:55:19 -0600, Greg Goss wrote: wrote: Composites are widely used all over the place. Many of them the Chimp probably thinks of as 'traditional materials'. Both concrete and mortar are composite materials and we've been using that stuff since the Romans. Composites of various types are used all over the place, from piping to appliances to aircraft to construction materials. Oh, good grief. I suppose you're going to tell me that a concrete pump is a 3-D printer, too. Hook it to the right controller and it is. I saw a youtube of someone printing a kid's playcastle using a concrete pump device of some kind. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQ5Elbvvr1M Don't be an idiot. The thread is clearly about modern marvels, like carbon fiber, not concrete. Geez, people turn intentionally stupid when they run out of ideas (like leftists). The word being used is 'composites'. Unlike you, I don't try to read peoples' minds to discover that they don't really mean 'composites' at all. I take them at their word and assume that if they mean 'carbon fiber' they will say that rather than 'composites'. Don't need to read anyone's mind but you do have to read the ****ing thread! ...if you're able. And when you do you will find they use the word 'composites' and not 'carbon fiber'. -- "Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar territory." --G. Behn |
#117
|
|||
|
|||
Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.
On 7/10/2017 4:40 PM, Robert Clark wrote:
On 7/10/2017 9:32 AM, Edward Prochak wrote: On Saturday, July 8, 2017 at 9:04:04 PM UTC-4, Lofty Goat wrote: On Fri, 7 Jul 2017 08:00:04 -0700 (PDT), Edward Prochak wrote: ... electric motors are much more complex than combustion motors.... What measure of complexity are you using? -- Goat This is in the context of 3-d printing. The mixture of materials makes electric motors much more complex than combustion engines. combustion engines are all metal. electric motors have metal and insulating material. That's the measure. ed you have low temp melting materials, adjacent to high temp melting materials. How do you print an insulated length of round wire from a normal direction to its axis ? assume copper and teflon. --- The possibility of 3D-printing insulated wiring could be tested by first testing in plastics. Plastic 3D-printing does have the capability of printing with different materials side by side: How It's Used - Multi-Materials with PolyJet. http://www.stratasys.com/solutions/a...al-3d-printing The key point that needs to be tested is if there could be 3D-printed multiple coils of a "wire" with one material inside the emulating the copper with a different material on the outside emulating the insulation. Bob Clark a 3D printing rule, you can only print on something with the same or higher melting point. can't print a high melting point material onto a low melting point material. that is a major limitation --- Could lay down the metal, then help it cool by blowing cold gas over it, then lay down the insulation, etc. Some types of insulation such as silicone rubber have a melting point of 300 C. Another possibility, is that in order for a material to melt, not only does the temperature have to reach the melting point but a quantity of heat called the "heat of fusion" has to be supplied to it for it to undergo the phase change from solid to liquid. For instance what's done with high performance rocket engines such as the SSME's, which operate above their melting point, is that the heat reaching the combustion chamber walls is constantly drawn away by cold fuel circulating around the walls, so this heat of fusion is not delivered to the walls. Still another possibility is a recent discovery of high temperature nanotube rubber: Nanotube rubber stays stretchy at extreme temperatures. Dec 2, 2010 http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/...e-temperatures Bob Clark ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Finally, nanotechnology can now fulfill its potential to revolutionize 21st-century technology, from the space elevator, to private, orbital launchers, to 'flying cars'. This crowdfunding campaign is to prove it: Nanotech: from air to space. https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/n...ce/x/13319568/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- |
#118
|
|||
|
|||
Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.
On Mon, 10 Jul 2017 16:44:09 -0700, Fred J. McCall
wrote: wrote: On Mon, 10 Jul 2017 12:44:12 -0700, Fred J. McCall wrote: wrote: On Sun, 09 Jul 2017 21:55:19 -0600, Greg Goss wrote: wrote: Composites are widely used all over the place. Many of them the Chimp probably thinks of as 'traditional materials'. Both concrete and mortar are composite materials and we've been using that stuff since the Romans. Composites of various types are used all over the place, from piping to appliances to aircraft to construction materials. Oh, good grief. I suppose you're going to tell me that a concrete pump is a 3-D printer, too. Hook it to the right controller and it is. I saw a youtube of someone printing a kid's playcastle using a concrete pump device of some kind. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQ5Elbvvr1M Don't be an idiot. The thread is clearly about modern marvels, like carbon fiber, not concrete. Geez, people turn intentionally stupid when they run out of ideas (like leftists). The word being used is 'composites'. Unlike you, I don't try to read peoples' minds to discover that they don't really mean 'composites' at all. I take them at their word and assume that if they mean 'carbon fiber' they will say that rather than 'composites'. Don't need to read anyone's mind but you do have to read the ****ing thread! ...if you're able. And when you do you will find they use the word 'composites' and not 'carbon fiber'. Obviously you aren't able. |
#119
|
|||
|
|||
Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.
Tauno Voipio wrote:
On 10.7.17 07:15, Greg Goss wrote: (My Ford hybrid has two electric motors and the gas engine. I am having trouble finding a good overview of the transmission, but it seems to be based on a differential concept.) So has my Lexus. It is similar to the Toyota Prius scheme, which is pretty well described in the Net. However, Ford may have patent problems with Toyota, or they may hava a licensing agreement. I was told that the entire engine and transmission scheme was licenced from Toyota. I sometimes call it a "Ford Prius V" -- We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current. |
#120
|
|||
|
|||
Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.
wrote:
In sci.physics David Mitchell wrote: wrote: In sci.physics David Mitchell wrote: wrote: In sci.physics David Mitchell wrote: wrote: In sci.physics David Mitchell wrote: wrote: In sci.physics David Mitchell wrote: wrote: In sci.physics David Mitchell wrote: wrote: Does anyone care about a shape optimized 4 slice toaster or filing cabinet? Yes. I do. If any significant number of items in your house are fabricated, it makes sense to use as few raw materials as possible, so, for example, it would make sense to honeycomb the inside of a knife handle, since it would still be strong enough, and would allow you to keep a gram or two of material "in the pot" for other projects. Ditto everything you make. Nonsense; the items in one's house are based on price not how elegantly it was produced. It makes no sense to honeycomb the inside of a knife handle as it would add no functionality and just increase the price. What price? The manufacturing cost which increases the retail sales price at the store. It would reduce both the time to fabricate and feedstock used, albeit at the cost of slightly more complex software. Or you could injection mold it, as most knife handles are, for a fraction of the manufacturing cost of the honyecomb nonsense. What do you think the manufacturing cost of fabrication is? - Feedstock, most of which is, and can be, recycled, Cost recovery for most materials is trivial. - Power, minimal, For 3D metal printing, lots of power. - Cost of the unit, divided by its expected lifetime, multiplied by time to print? Babble. Not really, it's called amortisation, in this case of the cost of the fabricator. "The process of reducing, or accounting for, an amount over a period according to a plan." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amortization These are all very small. For techniques such as molding, yes. And for mature fabrication technology. I'm looking at a mature fabrication economy - when you don't buy most things you fabricate them. Pure fantasy. Name-calling isn't particularly useful in a discussion. It is not name calling, it is my opinion of the concept of people fabricating their own things. I'd justify my claim (that most people will be fabricating most things) by noting that when almost any technology becomes cheap enough, it becomes ubiquitous, and I'd cite computers, automobiles and printers as examples. Milling machines, drill presses and lathes are quite cheap, especially when compared to metal 3D printers, and are available at your local Harbor Freight store. How many people do you know that own any of the above? Apples and oranges, they are nowhere as flexible as mature fabricator technology would be, nor as easy to use. Obviously you have never seen a N/C milling machine in action nor payed for raw stock. *paid I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. That you have no idea how things are made in the real world. Not so much a point, as a meta-point. If you have something to say, say it. With numbers, if you can. ; Even making bread is more difficult than simply selecting a file, loading feedstock and pressing a button. Obviously you have never seen a real 3D printer in action nor have you ever made bread. Done both; what's your point? As I keep having to explain, I'm talking about *mature* fabrication technology. What do you concider "mature fabrication technology"? The way you are talking I would think that would be a Star Trek replicator. Nope. Nothing I've described is beyond the pale. My starting point is 1 gram per second of a single material. It's a fairly low bar but it allows one to think about the societal and economic ramifications in a fairly plausible way. Besides, millions of people "make their own stuff" every day, although it's primarly digital content these days. Otherwise know as trash, SPAM, and utter nonsense. Irrelevant. OK, what "stuff" would people be making at home? Jewellry, utilities, tools, gadgets. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
The future of electric cars | FredKartoffel | Amateur Astronomy | 103 | June 21st 16 04:48 PM |
Cars Only Need a 20 HP motor(electric) | G=EMC^2TreBert | Misc | 3 | March 6th 15 12:08 AM |
3D Printed Rocket | William Mook[_2_] | Policy | 8 | January 17th 14 11:24 AM |
better way of seeing noise before image is printed? | Jason Albertson | Amateur Astronomy | 24 | March 7th 07 05:46 AM |
other planets that have lightning bolts-- do they have plate tectonics ?? do the experiment with electric motor and also Faradays first electric motor is this the Oersted experiment writ large on the size of continental plates | a_plutonium | Astronomy Misc | 4 | September 16th 06 01:13 PM |