Discovery ET to be reinforced all the way around

On 1/11/2011 7:36 PM, Brian Thorn wrote:
and will also mean they will
have lifeboats for six astronauts on a space station with what? 11-12
people on it?

Ten. STS-135 will be a crew of four. It will take a year to get
everybody off the Station. The last person will come home after about
a year (depending on 135's launch date.) That's still short of the
on-orbit record of 437 days set by Polyakov on Mir.


Means more food, water, and oxygen needs though, which in turn means
more unplanned cargo flights.
Since each Soyuz return flight will need at least one Russian aboard to
pilot it, that also will leave the ISS top-heavy with American astronauts.
It also means that you need four Soyuz spacecraft attached to it to
evacuate everyone in an emergency (3 people per Soyuz max).
Does it even have the ability to dock that many Soyuz at once?
I thought it had two Soyuz docking locations, plus one for the Progress.
Even if you dock a third Soyuz to the Progress docking collar how are
you supposed to get cargo to it via other Progress spacecraft?

Pat

Rick Jones wrote:
Val Kraut wrote:

This is all part of the Dumming of America. Don't question if the
other guy gave you the wrong stuff, don't question if things seem
wrong. Common sense is alive and well but not around here.

I've *got* to get this on a bumper sticker:
"Process shall set you free from the need for rational thought."

Was it Henry Ford or Thomas Edison who said -

Thinking it hard work. That's why so few folks do it.

Jorge R. Frank wrote:

Ham is no longer an active astronaut ...

Is he still alive? Chimps have shorter life spans than humans.

Doug Freyburger wrote:
Jorge R. Frank wrote:
Ham is no longer an active astronaut ...

Is he still alive? Chimps have shorter life spans than humans.

Ham the chimpanzee seems to have died in 1983:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ham_the_Chimp

rick
--
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?

In message
Pat Flannery wrote:

On 1/11/2011 7:36 PM, Brian Thorn wrote:
and will also mean they will
have lifeboats for six astronauts on a space station with what? 11-12
people on it?

Ten. STS-135 will be a crew of four. It will take a year to get
everybody off the Station. The last person will come home after about
a year (depending on 135's launch date.) That's still short of the
on-orbit record of 437 days set by Polyakov on Mir.

Since each Soyuz return flight will need at least one Russian aboard to
pilot it, that also will leave the ISS top-heavy with American astronauts.
It also means that you need four Soyuz spacecraft attached to it to
evacuate everyone in an emergency (3 people per Soyuz max).

There won't be evacuation seats for everyone, the reason it will take a
year is the construction lead time for the extra Soyuz. If there were
that many already available then a couple would probably be minimum
duration, launch, two days to dock, one to load passengers and any
cargo, then straight back down. They wouldn't be left at the station.

They might also make use of any ESA crew to handle return trips as they
are trained as Soyuz Flight Engineers.

Anthony

On Wed, 12 Jan 2011 02:32:00 -0800, Pat Flannery
wrote:

Ten. STS-135 will be a crew of four. It will take a year to get
everybody off the Station. The last person will come home after about
a year (depending on 135's launch date.) That's still short of the
on-orbit record of 437 days set by Polyakov on Mir.

Means more food, water, and oxygen needs though, which in turn means
more unplanned cargo flights.

Only one additional person (crew of seven instead of six.) Three will
return to Earth on one of the Soyuzes immediately. NASA will plan for
that, since Atlantis will be delivering an MPLM full of supplies
anyway (if Atlantis returns fine, then the extra food is just deducted
from subsequent Progress deliveries.)

Not everyone will have a lifeboat. That's why the astronaut office is
an all-volunteer force, however. There's no shortage of astronauts
willing to take the chance.

Brian

On Jan 13, 12:12*am, Pat Flannery wrote:
On 1/12/2011 1:16 PM, Anthony Frost wrote:

There won't be evacuation seats for everyone, the reason it will take a
year is the construction lead time for the extra Soyuz. If there were
that many already available then a couple would probably be minimum
duration, launch, two days to dock, one to load passengers and any
cargo, then straight back down. They wouldn't be left at the station.

They might also make use of any ESA crew to handle return trips as they
are trained as Soyuz Flight Engineers.

Although the odds of the crew getting stuck at the ISS certainly are
very small, if they do get stuck there you would be putting the ISS in
the RMS Titanic scenario, with fewer lifeboats than needed to evacuate
it in an emergency
Who's supposed to choose which six can evacuate it, and which four have
to stay aboard till two more Soyuz lifeboats arrive, or they die?
This is a _very_ stupid idea, and the fact that it's being done simply
to extend the Shuttle program a few months rather than out of any real
necessity makes it doubly stupid.
Frankly, I'm surprised the Russians didn't veto this extra mission idea
the moment it came up.

Pat

Well imagine the worst happens shuttle stuck at station, not enough
life boats and something bad occurs and 4 die, leaving a possibly
out of control station losing modules all over its ground track as it
breaks up.and re enters

I believe that will end US manned space for generations.

wierdly before coulumbia I was laughed at and called chicken little
when I asked about a shuttle stuck at station.

of course if any shuttle got stuck at station, the event itself would
likely ground the shuttle.

the real solution is russia having a few extra soyuz with boosters in
stock for fast emergency launch........

" Although the odds of the crew getting stuck at the ISS certainly are
very small, if they do get stuck there you would be putting the ISS in the
RMS Titanic scenario, with fewer lifeboats than needed to evacuate it in
an emergency
?
This is a _very_ stupid idea, and the fact that it's being done simply to
extend the Shuttle program a few months rather than out of any real
necessity makes it doubly stupid.
Frankly, I'm surprised the Russians didn't veto this extra mission idea
the moment it came up.

This is getting to sound more and more like a "Jaws" type movie. Some know
disaster is in the offing. But others given special interest just keep
smiling and plowing ahead. Then one by one the dominos start falling and an
not easily solved disaster unfolds. Astronauts trapped in orbit as we pray
for the miracle of their safe return - kind of like a 1 year Apollo 13. My
bet is right now out there some author is betting on the disaster and
already has a book half written. "Against Stupidity The Gods Themselves
Contend in Vain."


Val Kraut`

On 1/12/2011 1:16 PM, Anthony Frost wrote:

There won't be evacuation seats for everyone, the reason it will take a
year is the construction lead time for the extra Soyuz. If there were
that many already available then a couple would probably be minimum
duration, launch, two days to dock, one to load passengers and any
cargo, then straight back down. They wouldn't be left at the station.

They might also make use of any ESA crew to handle return trips as they
are trained as Soyuz Flight Engineers.

Although the odds of the crew getting stuck at the ISS certainly are
very small, if they do get stuck there you would be putting the ISS in
the RMS Titanic scenario, with fewer lifeboats than needed to evacuate
it in an emergency
Who's supposed to choose which six can evacuate it, and which four have
to stay aboard till two more Soyuz lifeboats arrive, or they die?
This is a _very_ stupid idea, and the fact that it's being done simply
to extend the Shuttle program a few months rather than out of any real
necessity makes it doubly stupid.
Frankly, I'm surprised the Russians didn't veto this extra mission idea
the moment it came up.

Pat

On 1/12/2011 3:46 PM, Brian Thorn wrote:

Only one additional person (crew of seven instead of six.) Three will
return to Earth on one of the Soyuzes immediately.

Only if one of the STS-135 crew is Russian; our guys don't know how to
operate a Soyuz any more than the Russian cosmonauts know how to operate
a Shuttle.
So at the least, one Russian cosmonaut is going to be needed to bring
two of our Shuttle crew home; and that applies to a second rescue Soyuz
return flight also, so that all four Shuttle crew get home.
Wait till you see the bill the Russians would send NASA for that little
scenario.
They'd _love_ the propaganda ramifications of saving the clumsy and
inept Americans and their deathtrap Shuttle's crew with their reliable
little Soyuz.

Pat