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NEWS: Many, Many Planets May Exist
Here are an interesting pair of articles to read:
http://www.spacedaily.com/news/extrasolar-03m.html http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/space/0...vey/index.html Back to back, they extrapolitively imply the existence of a very large number of planets. It's not unreasonable to think that a significant number of these could be habitable. So why aren't we picking up the extra-terrestrial radio signals? Sheer distance, perhaps? Sheer time required for life to evolve? Well, perhaps if not immediately habitable, then a number of them could be terraformable -- perhaps better candidates than our own immediate intra-solar neighbors, if not for the tremendous distance between stars. Oh well, at least future SETI and space telescope projects now have another useful metric to scan for -- metallic stars. Perhaps the Webb telescope will find something. But if other earth-like planets were indeed detected with reasonable confidence at a great distance, would it be justification for increased investigation into new physics in the hopes of achieving FTL travel to these distant oases? |
#3
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NEWS: Many, Many Planets May Exist
"Cardman" wrote in message
news On 22 Jul 2003 17:54:59 -0700, (sanman) wrote: Still given the odds there are just too many reasons why we do not hear from other civilizations, which could include that they simply do not care about contacting others. One possible explanation that is often overlooked : even if life is not rarity in the universe, even intelligent life, maybe _civilizations_ are. Maybe the most intriguing aspect of average intelligent life in universe is that it doesnt like other intelligence and tends to destroy it. Humans are perhaps an exception to this rule, and tend to like some amounts of intelligent life beside them, and perform the destruction in larger groups. Everybody kinda assumes that when intelligence is sparked, it definitely must evolve into big friendly civilization sooner or later. Well, perhaps not. -kert |
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NEWS: Many, Many Planets May Exist
"Kaido Kert" wrote in message
... "Cardman" wrote in message news On 22 Jul 2003 17:54:59 -0700, (sanman) wrote: Still given the odds there are just too many reasons why we do not hear from other civilizations, which could include that they simply do not care about contacting others. One possible explanation that is often overlooked : even if life is not rarity in the universe, even intelligent life, maybe _civilizations_ are. Maybe the most intriguing aspect of average intelligent life in universe is that it doesnt like other intelligence and tends to destroy it. Humans are perhaps an exception to this rule, and tend to like some amounts of intelligent life beside them, and perform the destruction in larger groups. Or, maybe civilizations are just very short-lived phenomenons in universe time scale. Perhaps the average time window for civilizations capable of broadcasting radio signals and also looking for them is about couple hundred years. Its hopelessly short time to make a contact with others. -kert |
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NEWS: Many, Many Planets May Exist
"Kaido Kert" wrote ...
Or, maybe civilizations are just very short-lived phenomenons in universe time scale. Perhaps the average time window for civilizations capable of broadcasting radio signals and also looking for them is about couple hundred years. Its hopelessly short time to make a contact with others. I hear SETI got a message from a pessimistic xenophilic extraterrestrial ... "Wish you were there." |
#6
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NEWS: Many, Many Planets May Exist
I would argue in part that we may not have been searching long enough,
seeing as we've only been able to detect radio waves for a split second of galactic history. Or, again, that trying to contact other worlds is a non-economicly rewarding activity that is done at most as a societal "hobby" rather than a serious project. |
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NEWS: Many, Many Planets May Exist
On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 12:04:42 +0300, "Kaido Kert"
wrote: One possible explanation that is often overlooked : even if life is not rarity in the universe, even intelligent life, maybe _civilizations_ are. That is certainly possible, which is why one day we will have to route out this intelligence. Maybe the most intriguing aspect of average intelligent life in universe is that it doesnt like other intelligence and tends to destroy it. Well lets consider the possible options... First there is the civilization intent on genocide, where each faction would battle and eliminate each other over time. This will continue with larger and larger Wars until one faction rules the entire planet. This would certainly not be a civilization that you would want to meet, when they could hunt you down and destroy you. However, I can only feel that other friendly galactic societies would perceive this threat and either eliminate or contain it. Second comes the civilization intent on domination, where they invade and rule with no doubt an iron fist. And of course if we ever met them, then so would we join the galactic society in a big way when they are our new masters. Hey this is not too bad, when instead of the likes of Bush and Blair we now have Hfgiuehgdjohfgueh. Third is the more likely option, when intelligence dictates that you need to work with your enemy to ensure your own survival, which produces a tolerant society towards aliens. Our society I guess fits between the second and third options. There is also the option that other alien societies are not interested in exploration, where they back off from entering new areas. This I guess would make for a dumb alien lacking in art forms like with music, when they have a small frontal lobe. So they would remain in caves and live not unlike an animal. One other option I almost forgot is a society based around fear, when they would not wish to seek alien contact due to fear of the unknown. Humans are perhaps an exception to this rule, and tend to like some amounts of intelligent life beside them, Don't we call those females. ;-] Everybody kinda assumes that when intelligence is sparked, it definitely must evolve into big friendly civilization sooner or later. Well, perhaps not. It is however the most logical option, when the most successful societies are those that can work together. Cardman. |
#8
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NEWS: Many, Many Planets May Exist
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#9
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NEWS: Many, Many Planets May Exist
In article ,
Cardman wrote: On 23 Jul 2003 02:59:58 -0700, (John Ordover) wrote: I would argue in part that we may not have been searching long enough, seeing as we've only been able to detect radio waves for a split second of galactic history. Yes, but if radio waves was the best contact method, then I would only feel that we would be hearing something. Actually, you should feel that anyway. Despite what Star Trek teaches, it is ludicrous to believe that two neighboring civilizations (in the galaxy) would arise within a few thousand (or even more) years of each other. One of them is going to come significantly before the others, and it will have plenty of time to colonize the entire galaxy while its neighbors are still swimming in the oceans. So, if ET is out there, he knows darn well that we're here and probably has been watching us for thousands of years. If they wanted to say hello, they wouldn't muck about sending feeble radio signals; they'd just stop over and say hello. Alpha Centauri is probably a densely settled system, and a hotspot for exobiologists (due to its proximity to us, of course). Even without FTL travel, such a short hop would be quite reasonable for something important -- as surely first contact with an emerging civilization would be. So like two hundred years down the line they will figure out some much faster communication system, where as soon as they flick the on switch the first time they will hear millions of broadcasts. Again, I doubt there's anything to hear, since if they wanted us to hear them there would be no mistaking it. Since we hear nothing, then either they don't exist, or they don't want us to know that they exist. In the latter case, I don't think any switch we could flip any time soon would allow us to detect them. Their methods of stealth are likely to be far beyond our methods of detection. Or, again, that trying to contact other worlds is a non-economicly rewarding activity that is done at most as a societal "hobby" rather than a serious project. Yet SETI does have large enough resources to be able to know that other alien civilizations do not use radio waves a great deal. Well, all we really know is that nobody is pointing those radio waves at us. It will be more interesting in the future when we see those pale blue dots of life supporting worlds If that happens. (Though I suspect it will -- my current best theory is that virtually all other life-bearing worlds in the galaxy are ocean planets, that don't have most of their planetary crust orbiting thousands of kilometers over their heads, and it will turn out that technological civilizations simply do not emerge in the water.) and SETI sends the message "We know that you are out there". That'd be fairly pointless. Either the life on that planet will still be a bunch of slime molds, quite unable to receive the message, or they'll be advanced critters that already settled most of the galaxy, and not already know we're here, but were responsible for the nature preserve we seem to be living in. I am left wondering if a spectrum of a life supporting world can pick up evidence of an intelligent society. Alien made pollution and unnatural materials like with exploding nuclear bombs. You're thinking of "intelligent society" as exactly where we are right now, give or take a century or so. I blame this on Star Trek. In real life, the odds of two civilizations arise that close to each other border on impossible. So if aliens could see our planet from far away and we were not broadcasting radio waves, then could traces of an intelligent society be seen? Maybe even street lights would count. Ah, maybe I had your comment backwards. Yes, there are lots of ways an advanced civilization could detect us from nearby star systems. Radio waves would be the most obvious of this century, but well before that, there are markers for photosynthesis, etc. Well I will look forwards to the day when SETI has a station on the Moon, when they can then do a better search. I think SETI is fairly pointless, but I still look forward to the day that they have a station on the Moon, because it will mean that we have stations on the Moon! Cheers, - Joe ,------------------------------------------------------------------. | Joseph J. Strout Check out the Mac Web Directory: | | http://www.macwebdir.com | `------------------------------------------------------------------' |
#10
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NEWS: Many, Many Planets May Exist
Kaido Kert wrote:
"Cardman" wrote in message news On 22 Jul 2003 17:54:59 -0700, (sanman) wrote: Still given the odds there are just too many reasons why we do not hear from other civilizations, which could include that they simply do not care about contacting others. One possible explanation that is often overlooked : even if life is not rarity in the universe, even intelligent life, maybe _civilizations_ are. Maybe the most intriguing aspect of average intelligent life in universe is that it doesnt like other intelligence and tends to destroy it. Humans are perhaps an exception to this rule, and tend to like some amounts of intelligent life beside them, and perform the destruction in larger groups. This is unknown. We haven't met any yet and avoided destroying them / being destroyed by them. We haven't even had to face the social upheavals of "there *is* somebody out there". Everybody kinda assumes that when intelligence is sparked, it definitely must evolve into big friendly civilization sooner or later. Well, perhaps not. Considering the "window" we are have been looking for such, the galaxy would have to be positively deeming with intelligent species eager to waste huge resources to be noticed by others. Or of cause, some of the persistent gaussians could turn out to be from other civilisations. -kert -- Sander +++ Out of cheese error +++ |
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