A Space & astronomy forum. SpaceBanter.com

Go Back   Home » SpaceBanter.com forum » Space Science » History
Site Map Home Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

JFK's greatest achievements/Apollo (Was: Deep Apologies to everyone....)



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old January 22nd 09, 04:15 PM posted to sci.military.naval,sci.space.history
Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,865
Default JFK's greatest achievements/Apollo (Was: Deep Apologies to everyone....)

"Jack Linthicum" wrote in message
...

Look at the NASA budget for that period, if there is a heading for
"advanced devlopment" there is a program.

http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4214/app2.html



This is in many ways an argument about syntax.

A "program" doesn't necessarily mean a consistent, well-thought out project
or real focus.
i.e. yes, money was spent. Yes, people were paid. But there wasn't a real
focus or even goal.
So stuff like AAP had a lot of hand-waving and goals, but unlike "Land a man
on the moon and return him safely..." no real focus or ultimate goal.



--
Greg Moore
Ask me about lily, an RPI based CMC.


  #22  
Old January 22nd 09, 04:16 PM posted to sci.military.naval,sci.space.history
Jack Linthicum
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 290
Default JFK's greatest achievements/Apollo (Was: Deep Apologies toeveryone....)

On Jan 22, 10:15*am, "Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)"
wrote:
"Jack Linthicum" wrote in message

...

Look at the NASA budget for that period, if there is a heading for
"advanced devlopment" there is a program.

http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4214/app2.html



This is in many ways an argument about syntax.

A "program" doesn't necessarily mean a consistent, well-thought out project
or real focus.
i.e. yes, money was spent. *Yes, people were paid. *But there wasn't a real
focus or even goal.
So stuff like AAP had a lot of hand-waving and goals, but unlike "Land a man
on the moon and return him safely..." no real focus or ultimate goal.

--
Greg Moore
Ask me about lily, an RPI based CMC.


This one even calls it the Saturn-Apollo Applications (SAA) Program
Office

http://altairvi.blogspot.com/2008/03...cations-summar...
  #23  
Old January 22nd 09, 05:06 PM posted to sci.military.naval,sci.space.history
Jeff Findley
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,012
Default JFK's greatest achievements/Apollo (Was: Deep Apologies to everyone....)


"Roger Conroy" wrote in message
...

"Derek Lyons" wrote in message
...
"Roger Conroy" wrote:

The Apollo program ended up being just a flash in the pan, nothing of any
serious consequence followed on from it.


It was never intended to be anything but a flash in the pan - the
program lived up to Kennedy's promise. That it failed to live up to
the utterly unfounded and irrational goals attached to it ex post
facto by others is not Kennedy's fault.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL


Derek
Are you seriously saying that the Apollo program was intended right from
the start to be nothing more than a really expensive ****ing contest? I
find that a bit hard to believe.


There were tapes released which Kennedy says something to the effect that he
doesn't care about space, he only cares about beating the Russians. Let me
search for it...

Here is the article (two parts):

http://www.thespacereview.com/article/735/1
http://www.thespacereview.com/article/739/1

Here's a quote from Kennedy that's in the first part of the article above:

During that meeting, Kennedy made the comment that “I’m not that
interested in space…” explaining that he supported the lunar
program because it was a race against the Soviets: “the Soviet
Union has made this a test of the system. So that’s why we’re
doing it,” Kennedy explained. (In 2002 I assisted NASA in
transcribing and analyzing the meeting.)

The above contains a link to the transcription of the meeting:

http://history.nasa.gov/JFK-Webbconv....html#interest

That's pretty clear, isn't it?

Jeff
--
"Many things that were acceptable in 1958 are no longer acceptable today.
My own standards have changed too." -- Freeman Dyson


  #24  
Old January 22nd 09, 06:51 PM posted to sci.military.naval,sci.space.history
Pat Flannery
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,465
Default JFK's greatest achievements/Apollo (Was: Deep Apologies to everyone....)



Jack Linthicum wrote:
Look at the NASA budget for that period, if there is a heading for
"advanced devlopment" there is a program.

http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4214/app2.html


Thanks for finding that info; I've been looking for that for a long time.

Pat
  #25  
Old January 22nd 09, 08:02 PM posted to sci.military.naval,sci.space.history
Derek Lyons
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,999
Default JFK's greatest achievements/Apollo (Was: Deep Apologies to everyone....)

"Roger Conroy" wrote:

Pretty conclusive evidence that it really was just a ****ing contest.



Part of the reasons for the persistence of the Apollo As First Heroic
Step, Cut Short By The Vile Criminal Richard Nixon a

a) Many space fans aren't actually all that familiar with the details
of history. (Or technology, or economics, or budget history, or
politics, or any of a dozen other detailed topics.) Non space fans
know even less.

~and~

b) These transcripts were only released fairly recently IIRC.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL
  #26  
Old January 22nd 09, 08:35 PM posted to sci.military.naval,sci.space.history
David Lesher
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 198
Default JFK's greatest achievements/Apollo (Was: Deep Apologies to everyone....)

"Roger Conroy" writes:



Derek
Are you seriously saying that the Apollo program was intended right from the
start to be nothing more than a really expensive ****ing contest? I find
that a bit hard to believe.


The Apollo 8 crew said as much in a recent retrospective at the Newseum.

--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
  #28  
Old January 22nd 09, 08:38 PM posted to sci.military.naval,sci.space.history
David Lesher
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 198
Default JFK's greatest achievements/Apollo (Was: Deep Apologies to everyone....)


If you mean the one that is popularly thought of, Derek is right. The goal
was to "land a man on the Moon and return him safely before the decade was out."

^ the FIRST


--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
  #29  
Old January 23rd 09, 12:29 AM posted to sci.military.naval,sci.space.history
Jack Linthicum
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 290
Default JFK's greatest achievements/Apollo (Was: Deep Apologies toeveryone....)

On Jan 22, 3:29*pm, OM wrote:
On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 19:35:09 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher

wrote:
Are you seriously saying that the Apollo program was intended right from the
start to be nothing more than a really expensive ****ing contest? I find
that a bit hard to believe.


The Apollo 8 crew said as much in a recent retrospective at the Newseum.


...And that's something that Roger needs to come to terms with. When
you boil it down to the most basic terms, it really was just a
"****ing match". However, it was a "****ing match" with a just cause,
and whoever produced the longest stream in distance and duration won.

thinks

...Which means we won the distance part, but the Russians essentially
won the duration side of things. And we even crossed the streams a few
times along the way.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *OM

--

* ]=====================================[
* ] * OMBlog -http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld* [
* ] * * * *Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* * * * * [
* ] * * * * *an obnoxious opinion in your day! * * * * * [
* ]=====================================[


You have to know that the Soviets bet that we wouldn't make it. Their
J booster (it has some launcher designation I never learned) never
really got off the ground after 1969, the Zond spacecraft had some
problems and they lost their best spaceman when Komarov died. Thier
best shot was a little hod carrier on wheels called Lunakhod. The
Proton launcher was probably their best bet but they never man-rated
it. Thier version of the MOL, Salyut, was more or less a dud.
  #30  
Old January 23rd 09, 12:41 AM posted to sci.military.naval,sci.space.history
Andrew Swallow[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 83
Default JFK's greatest achievements/Apollo (Was: Deep Apologies to everyone....)

Jack Linthicum wrote:
On Jan 22, 8:45 am, " wrote:
On Jan 22, 8:19 am, Jack Linthicum
wrote:



On Jan 22, 8:15 am, Jack Linthicum
wrote:
On Jan 22, 8:07 am, (Rand Simberg)
wrote:
On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 03:52:50 -0800 (PST), in a place far, far away,
Jack Linthicum made the phosphor on my
monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that:
On Jan 21, 5:36 pm, (Rand Simberg)
wrote:
On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 13:46:22 -0800 (PST), in a place far, far away,
Jack Linthicum made the phosphor on my
monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that:
On Jan 21, 3:52 pm, (Derek Lyons) wrote:
"Roger Conroy" wrote:
The Apollo program ended up being just a flash in the pan, nothing of any
serious consequence followed on from it.
It was never intended to be anything but a flash in the pan - the
program lived up to Kennedy's promise. That it failed to live up to
the utterly unfounded and irrational goals attached to it ex post
facto by others is not Kennedy's fault.
D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.
http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/
-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL
IIRC there were many programs which were intended to use the Saturn V
and its variants as the heavy booster, Space Shuttle being one, This
combination would have built the ISS in five launches.
There were concepts to do so, but they were hardly "programs."
Ask the people who got paid for doing them.
What would they know about it?
I get paid for doing lots of things, but that doesn't make them a
"program."
Look at the NASA budget for that period, if there is a heading for
"advanced devlopment" there is a program.
http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4214/app2.html
This one even calls it the Saturn-Apollo Applications (SAA) Program
Office
http://altairvi.blogspot.com/2008/03...-summar...Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

yeah our country mucked up big time, the vietnam war sucked up all the
money.

if it haDNT BEEN FOR VIETNAM WE COULD OF USED A FRACTION OF THOSE
BUCKS AND GONE TO MARS


Funny how wars always seem to intervene and reduce the ability to
achieve the perfect society? You would have thought the end of the
Cold War would have brought prosperity and a caring government,
handing out medical care and creating a green environment. Instead we
got the idea of the 50% plus one election and the "on-off" switch
concept of government.


Social security spending is part of the security (= military) spending.
People normally think the opposite.

Andrew Swallow
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Women's achievements Dr J R Stockton[_1_] History 6 July 30th 09 10:17 AM
Bush: Greatest World Leader & Greatest President In History? ` ` Anonymous[_12_] Astronomy Misc 2 March 18th 08 10:18 PM
Bush: Greatest World Leader & Greatest President In History? ` ` Anonymous[_12_] Amateur Astronomy 2 March 18th 08 10:18 PM
Greatest Brilliancy ==> Greatest Illuminated Extent Paul Schlyter Amateur Astronomy 1 September 18th 05 06:57 PM
NASA Recognizes Achievements at Honor Awards Ceremony Jacques van Oene News 0 August 13th 05 12:10 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 SpaceBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.