yet more foto browsing: not a funny one, this

I keep hearing that Betty Grissom campaigned to have the ill-fated AS204
re-designated "Apollo I" after the Fire; how does that explain Gus'
mission patch in:
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/Hi...1-67-H-104.jpg ?

Just curious. I keep hearing that story, but keep stumbling over fotos of
the crew in training wearing the Apollo I insignia.

--
"All over, people changing their votes,
along with their overcoats;
if Adolf Hitler flew in today,
they'd send a limousine anyway!" --the clash.
__________________________________________________ _________________
Mike Flugennock, flugennock at sinkers dot org
Mike Flugennock's Mikey'zine, dubya dubya dubya dot sinkers dot org

In article ,
Mike Flugennock wrote:
I keep hearing that Betty Grissom campaigned to have the ill-fated AS204
re-designated "Apollo I" after the Fire; how does that explain Gus'
mission patch...

The key thing to understand is that those mission patches did not have
high-level approval and did not represent an official NASA decision about
the mission designation. The whole idea of doing mission patches was
fairly new, and the idea of using the patch art as a major symbol for the
mission hadn't appeared yet. At that point, they were an informal thing
done mostly for the crews and their immediate associates; NASA officialdom
was involved only in that management had veto power over patch design.

There is no question that the *crew* were calling the mission Apollo 1,
and so their patch design reflected this. Getting that designation made
the official name of the mission was another matter entirely, and *that*
is what the crew's widows pushed for.
--
"Think outside the box -- the box isn't our friend." | Henry Spencer
-- George Herbert |

On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 19:27:55 -0500, (Mike
Flugennock) wrote:

Just curious. I keep hearing that story, but keep stumbling over fotos of
the crew in training wearing the Apollo I insignia.

....The way I've come to understand it, mission patches had only been
given some semblance of sanction from about the middle of the Gemini
Program. They weren't around for Mercury, although the capsules had
logos of a sort painted by a McDD staff artist(*). The first was
intended for Grissom & Young's GT-3 flight, but after Gus decided to
call it "The Unsinkable Molly Brown", the PAO got their perpetually
soiled panties in a wad, and squashed capsule names. At the same time,
they almost got away with pulling the same **** with the mission
patches, but common sense - and the realization that patches were
marketable, and marketing = revenue for NASA it otherwise wouldn't
get, even if it wasn't enough to offset Congress' ****ing up the
budget - prevailed. Patches were allowed with PAO approval, and they
even went so far as to retroactively issue mission patches for the
Mercury missions, which were made "official" since they included
elements of the capsule logos.

....Now, when Gus, Ed and Roger were getting ready for AS-204, Gus
apparently got the burr in his butt that he didn't want to be the
commander of "Apollo-Saturn 204", much less the probable shorthand
designator of "Apollo 4". When they cobbled together the patch, they
listed the flight as "Apollo 1" in an attempt to force the issue. The
PAO was not amused, and there's been some mention around here in the
past that Gus apparently used "Astropower" to get the 4" versions for
the suits made(**) and have them applied in time for the press photos
to be shot. The logic being that once they've been seen with a patch
identifying the flight as "Apollo 1", the PAO would be seen in the
public eye as an even bigger bunch of anal-retentive dip****s as the
Astronauts themselves already knew they were.

....So, after the fire, with the crew out of the way, as part of the
public relations damage control efforts, someone in the NASA hierarchy
and/or the PAO decided that one tactic should be minimalizing the
public face of the fire by not giving it an "officlal" Apollo flight
number designation. Ergo, it would be listed as "AS-204", categorized
as some sort of "ground test" and not as an actual mission, so that by
fudging the books the PAO could argue "but we've had a very safe
flight record with Apollo!!" It was here that I will give Betty, as
well as the other wives, her due. She put her foot down and raised
enough of a stink that the press got ahold of the scent, and before it
was allowed to fester the PAO backed down and officially designated
AS-204 as Apollo 1, and obviously patch and all.

Of course, after that deserved victory, and the questionable validity
of the "wrongful death" suit against NAA and NASA that the wives filed
and won, Betty let it all go to her head, and has since ruined her own
reputation as well as that of her son by trying to push the bull****
claims that Gus, Ed and Roger were "murdered deliberately". But that's
another story, one that a Google search will direct the clueless and
the uninformed towards the real story...

(*) The same artist was used for all but Cooper's MODM "Faith 7",
which explains why it's the least stylish of the lot.

(**) Were they beta-cloth, or did the beta-cloth patches only arrive
as a result of the post-fire redesign?
OM

--

"No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society

- General George S. Patton, Jr

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 01:22:28 -0600, OM
om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_researc h_facility.org
wrote:

On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 19:27:55 -0500, (Mike
Flugennock) wrote:

Just curious. I keep hearing that story, but keep stumbling over fotos of
the crew in training wearing the Apollo I insignia.


...Now, when Gus, Ed and Roger were getting ready for AS-204, Gus
apparently got the burr in his butt that he didn't want to be the
commander of "Apollo-Saturn 204", much less the probable shorthand
designator of "Apollo 4". When they cobbled together the patch, they
listed the flight as "Apollo 1" in an attempt to force the issue. The
PAO was not amused, and there's been some mention around here in the
past that Gus apparently used "Astropower" to get the 4" versions for
the suits made(**) and have them applied in time for the press photos
to be shot. The logic being that once they've been seen with a patch
identifying the flight as "Apollo 1", the PAO would be seen in the
public eye as an even bigger bunch of anal-retentive dip****s as the
Astronauts themselves already knew they were.


Here's a webpage with some info about the Apollo 1 patch.

http://genedorr.com/patches/Apollo/Ap01.html



Rusty

OM wrote:

On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 19:27:55 -0500, (Mike
Flugennock) wrote:



Just curious. I keep hearing that story, but keep stumbling over fotos of
the crew in training wearing the Apollo I insignia.



...The way I've come to understand it, mission patches had only been
given some semblance of sanction from about the middle of the Gemini
Program. They weren't around for Mercury, although the capsules had
logos of a sort painted by a McDD staff artist(*). The first was
intended for Grissom & Young's GT-3 flight, but after Gus decided to
call it "The Unsinkable Molly Brown", the PAO got their perpetually
soiled panties in a wad, and squashed capsule names.


That's a great patch though.
Notice that the sides the mission patch and NASA insignia are on get
reversed between these two photos?
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/Hi...1-67-H-104.jpg
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/Hi...-S68-33750.jpg
Also, doesn't this look like David Sander's Mars astronaut suit:
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/Hi...-S67-23082.jpg
http://manconquersspace.com/graphics...sExplorer3.jpg
They still need those loop direction finder antennas on space suits.

"Rusty" wrote in message
...

Here's a webpage with some info about the Apollo 1 patch.

http://genedorr.com/patches/Apollo/Ap01.html

Very interesting. So the fact that the patch was approved isn't actually
strong evidence that the flight was to be called Apollo I, since Low
withdrew the approval, albeit only a week before the fire.

On 2005-02-28, OM om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_researc h_facility.org wrote:

logos of a sort painted by a McDD staff artist(*). The first was
intended for Grissom & Young's GT-3 flight, but after Gus decided to
call it "The Unsinkable Molly Brown", the PAO got their perpetually
soiled panties in a wad, and squashed capsule names. At the same time,


The same sort of thing happened with Apollo; the names were originally
lighthearted, and then there's a definable point where someone put their
foot down and insisted on Seriousness.

In this case, they let Spider & Gumdrop slip, then waved through Snoopy
and Charlie Brown, but baulked at Haystack and Snowcone...

--
-Andrew Gray

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 20:02:40 -0600, rk
wrote:

The Pluto/New Horizons spacecraft has two instruments named "Ralph" and
Alice."

....Which those anal-retentive ****wits at the NASA PAO will no doubt
allow some 10-year-old precocious dip**** to give some lame-assed
names that are supposed to "inspire". Probably something like
"Interrogator" and "Observationalist". The PAO ****ed up royally by
not naming MER-A and MER-B "Marvin" and "Daffy", respectively. The
marketing and recognition potential would have far exceeded any
perceived "inspiration" those two banalities could have hoped to have
generated...

OM

--

"No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society

- General George S. Patton, Jr

rk wrote...

The Pluto/New Horizons spacecraft has two instruments
named "Ralph" and Alice."


And one named Pepssi. I just hope the vent apertures are not too close to
it; I lost a monitor that way once

- Peter

mike, don't believe the henery spencers of the world, et. al. the
flight was Apollo 1. i have a photo dated sept. 28th 1966 with the CM
in it's shipping container clearly marked as Apollo 1. the 204
reference is to the booster which flew later. that 204 reference was
used to try and remove Apollo 1 and the bogus fire investigation from
the manned space program (per. sheperd). when the booster and the SM
and CM were mated the flight was known as A1. that should stir things
up........