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Bacteria in spaeships



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 23rd 18, 11:51 PM posted to sci.space.policy
jacob navia
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Posts: 341
Default Bacteria in spaeships

NASA got a bad day some weeks ago.

A microbiologist discovered that Acetinobacter can eat the desinfectant
that NASA sprays in their clean rooms...

A soil bacteria.

Now, NASA is selecting the hardest microbes to send to space... All
other normal microbes are dead, and Actetinobacter has no competition.

Arrived to destination (say Mars) Acetinobacter could be devasting for a
local biota. Since it is extremely resistant, it could spread unchecked.

Is it a good idea to desinfect spaceships?

Or it would be better to have as much as possible of weak, normal
bacteria that are surely dead if confronted to space?

Or coat the spaceships with very fragile bacteria that would prevent
Acetinobacter to thrive and would be immediately dead in space?

What is important is that in space no earth bacteria survive unchecked.
  #2  
Old June 24th 18, 03:41 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Jeff Findley[_6_]
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Posts: 2,307
Default Bacteria in spaeships

In article ,
says...

NASA got a bad day some weeks ago.

A microbiologist discovered that Acetinobacter can eat the desinfectant
that NASA sprays in their clean rooms...

A soil bacteria.

Now, NASA is selecting the hardest microbes to send to space... All
other normal microbes are dead, and Actetinobacter has no competition.

Arrived to destination (say Mars) Acetinobacter could be devasting for a
local biota. Since it is extremely resistant, it could spread unchecked.


There is zero proof that Mars has actual living "local biota".
Furthermore, I am unaware of any earth microbes which would "thrive" in
the extremely thin atmosphere and radiation environment of Mars.

Is it a good idea to desinfect spaceships?


If you want the crew on the inside to stay healthy, yes. Otherwise it's
like locking them inside a dank basement for the duration of the trip
and hoping they don't get sick.

Or it would be better to have as much as possible of weak, normal
bacteria that are surely dead if confronted to space?

Or coat the spaceships with very fragile bacteria that would prevent
Acetinobacter to thrive and would be immediately dead in space?

What is important is that in space no earth bacteria survive unchecked.


Inside ISS, where they try to combat microbes for the health of the
crew, is not the same as outside ISS in vacuum. Inside the spacecraft
is also not the same as outside in the very thin atmosphere of Mars.

Jeff
--
All opinions posted by me on Usenet News are mine, and mine alone.
These posts do not reflect the opinions of my family, friends,
employer, or any organization that I am a member of.
  #3  
Old June 24th 18, 10:36 PM posted to sci.space.policy
jacob navia
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 341
Default Bacteria in spaeships

Le 24/06/2018 Ã* 16:41, Jeff Findley a écritÂ*:
In article ,
says...

NASA got a bad day some weeks ago.

A microbiologist discovered that Acetinobacter can eat the desinfectant
that NASA sprays in their clean rooms...

A soil bacteria.

Now, NASA is selecting the hardest microbes to send to space... All
other normal microbes are dead, and Actetinobacter has no competition.

Arrived to destination (say Mars) Acetinobacter could be devasting for a
local biota. Since it is extremely resistant, it could spread unchecked.


There is zero proof that Mars has actual living "local biota".


What?

NASA has disclosed the presence of organics in Mars. Furthermore the
methane cycle has seasonal variations and points to local biota that is
breathing.

Apparently, mars organics ad life look similar to earth's life. A
microbiologist published comparisons between fossil looking formations
in Mars and earthly, older microbial formations that look VERY similar
to those mars "rocks"...

All this evidence points to life in Mars.


Furthermore, I am unaware of any earth microbes which would "thrive" in
the extremely thin atmosphere and radiation environment of Mars.


NASA selects those bacteria by killing all others and leaving them a
space where they find no competition for nutrients and space. All other
bacteria are dead.

Is it a good idea to desinfect spaceships?


If you want the crew on the inside to stay healthy, yes.


There is zero proof that a Mars-able ship is doable with today's
technology. No prototypes have been ever constructed, and Americans
aren't able to return to the moon any more.

They speak a lot about Mars, and send regularly machines to that planet.

Otherwise it's
like locking them inside a dank basement for the duration of the trip
and hoping they don't get sick.


There is the radiation problem. No atmosphere and no planetary magnetic
field leave the crew unshielded in space, that is full of harmful
radiation. The crew is in a suicide mission with today's technology.

Or it would be better to have as much as possible of weak, normal
bacteria that are surely dead if confronted to space?

Or coat the spaceships with very fragile bacteria that would prevent
Acetinobacter to thrive and would be immediately dead in space?

What is important is that in space no earth bacteria survive unchecked.


Inside ISS, where they try to combat microbes for the health of the
crew, is not the same as outside ISS in vacuum. Inside the spacecraft
is also not the same as outside in the very thin atmosphere of Mars.


Of course. I am speaking of unmanned machines, since, as I said above,
no humans have ever attempted to cross that void.

Of course I was trying to discuss from a scientific point of view, and I
know science is not well seen in some american circles, in a country
without a science advisor since more than a year.


Jeff



  #4  
Old June 24th 18, 10:39 PM posted to sci.space.policy
jacob navia
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Posts: 341
Default Bacteria in spaeships

Le 24/06/2018 Ã* 19:39, JF Mezei a écritÂ*:
Obviously, bacterias that thrive in human-friendly environment won't
thrive on Mars surface. But we can't know that some bacterias on earth
might be able to adapt to Mars and thrive in/below the sand.


Precisely.

NASA is selecting the wrong bacteria with the desinfectation procedure.
We should select for bacteria that thrive on earth and die in space.

NASA is doing the opposite: selecting the most resistent bacteria that
thrive even in the alcohol of NASA's clean rooms!


  #5  
Old June 25th 18, 12:03 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Fred J. McCall[_3_]
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Posts: 10,018
Default Bacteria in spaeships

jacob navia wrote on Sun, 24 Jun 2018
23:36:22 +0200:

Le 24/06/2018 à 16:41, Jeff Findley a écrit*:
In article ,
says...

NASA got a bad day some weeks ago.

A microbiologist discovered that Acetinobacter can eat the desinfectant
that NASA sprays in their clean rooms...

A soil bacteria.

Now, NASA is selecting the hardest microbes to send to space... All
other normal microbes are dead, and Actetinobacter has no competition.

Arrived to destination (say Mars) Acetinobacter could be devasting for a
local biota. Since it is extremely resistant, it could spread unchecked.


There is zero proof that Mars has actual living "local biota".


What?


What he said. Go read it again.


NASA has disclosed the presence of organics in Mars.


Which PROVES nothing.


Furthermore the
methane cycle has seasonal variations and points to local biota that is
breathing.


Well, no.


Apparently, mars organics ad life look similar to earth's life. A
microbiologist published comparisons between fossil looking formations
in Mars and earthly, older microbial formations that look VERY similar
to those mars "rocks"...


Another 'no'.


All this evidence points to life in Mars.


COULD point to life. Which part of the word "proof" is it that is
eluding you?


Furthermore, I am unaware of any earth microbes which would "thrive" in
the extremely thin atmosphere and radiation environment of Mars.


NASA selects those bacteria by killing all others and leaving them a
space where they find no competition for nutrients and space. All other
bacteria are dead.


So your argument is that we need to protect a biota that doesn't exist
(because if it did there wouldn't be "no competition")?

Is it a good idea to desinfect spaceships?


If you want the crew on the inside to stay healthy, yes.


There is zero proof that a Mars-able ship is doable with today's
technology. No prototypes have been ever constructed, and Americans
aren't able to return to the moon any more.


But there is better evidence for that than there is for life on Mars.


They speak a lot about Mars, and send regularly machines to that planet.


Yes, they do. If men aren't going, let's stop wasting that money.

Otherwise it's
like locking them inside a dank basement for the duration of the trip
and hoping they don't get sick.


There is the radiation problem. No atmosphere and no planetary magnetic
field leave the crew unshielded in space, that is full of harmful
radiation. The crew is in a suicide mission with today's technology.


False.

Or it would be better to have as much as possible of weak, normal
bacteria that are surely dead if confronted to space?

Or coat the spaceships with very fragile bacteria that would prevent
Acetinobacter to thrive and would be immediately dead in space?

What is important is that in space no earth bacteria survive unchecked.


Inside ISS, where they try to combat microbes for the health of the
crew, is not the same as outside ISS in vacuum. Inside the spacecraft
is also not the same as outside in the very thin atmosphere of Mars.


Of course. I am speaking of unmanned machines, since, as I said above,
no humans have ever attempted to cross that void.


Then you need to learn to formulate your ideas more clearly.


Of course I was trying to discuss from a scientific point of view, and I
know science is not well seen in some american circles, in a country
without a science advisor since more than a year.


Gee, **** you very much, too. You might want to look to where all the
Nobel prizes go, Mr Scientist.


--
"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the
truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
-- Thomas Jefferson
  #7  
Old June 25th 18, 12:23 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Jeff Findley[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,307
Default Bacteria in spaeships

In article ,
says...

Le 24/06/2018 à 16:41, Jeff Findley a écrit*:
In article ,

says...

NASA got a bad day some weeks ago.

A microbiologist discovered that Acetinobacter can eat the desinfectant
that NASA sprays in their clean rooms...

A soil bacteria.

Now, NASA is selecting the hardest microbes to send to space... All
other normal microbes are dead, and Actetinobacter has no competition.

Arrived to destination (say Mars) Acetinobacter could be devasting for a
local biota. Since it is extremely resistant, it could spread unchecked.


There is zero proof that Mars has actual living "local biota".


What?

NASA has disclosed the presence of organics in Mars. Furthermore the
methane cycle has seasonal variations and points to local biota that is
breathing.


None of this is conclusive evidence. So called "organic" molecules can
be, and are, formed by processes not involving life.

Apparently, mars organics ad life look similar to earth's life. A
microbiologist published comparisons between fossil looking formations
in Mars and earthly, older microbial formations that look VERY similar
to those mars "rocks"...

All this evidence points to life in Mars.


Not at all conclusively. And even if we accept that these are fossils
from millions of years ago (again, there isn't conclusive evidence of
this), that does *not* mean that life still exists on Mars in its
current state of an atmosphere that's nearly vacuum.

Furthermore, I am unaware of any earth microbes which would

"thrive" in
the extremely thin atmosphere and radiation environment of Mars.


NASA selects those bacteria by killing all others and leaving them a
space where they find no competition for nutrients and space. All other
bacteria are dead.

Is it a good idea to desinfect spaceships?


If you want the crew on the inside to stay healthy, yes.


There is zero proof that a Mars-able ship is doable with today's
technology. No prototypes have been ever constructed, and Americans
aren't able to return to the moon any more.


Bull****. Crewed Mars ships are quite possible. There is no bit of
technology we don't have to land a crew on Mars. It's just that we have
not built one yet due to the high cost and the unwillingness of
politicians to pay for the program. I can't blame them considering
NASA's string of financial and/or programmatic failures post-Apollo.

Hopefully SpaceX will change that in the next 10 years or so because
NASA sure as heck isn't going to be able to afford it with SLS/Orion
sucking up several billions of dollars each and every year with nothing
to show for it so far.

Jeff
--
All opinions posted by me on Usenet News are mine, and mine alone.
These posts do not reflect the opinions of my family, friends,
employer, or any organization that I am a member of.
  #8  
Old June 25th 18, 01:04 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Alain Fournier[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 548
Default Bacteria in spaeships

On Jun/25/2018 at 7:17 AM, Jeff Findley wrote :
In article ,
says...

On 2018-06-24 10:41, Jeff Findley wrote:

There is zero proof that Mars has actual living "local biota".
Furthermore, I am unaware of any earth microbes which would "thrive" in
the extremely thin atmosphere and radiation environment of Mars.


Most bacteria live in the ground, not in the air.


Most soil based bacteria don't live in near vacuum either. How about
you list one type of bacteria that does. Waiting...

And even on Earth, life has been found is very harsh conditions (such as
near underwater volcano vents). And there are bacteria eating the
Titanic's steel 4km underwater in near freezing temperature, no light.


Not near vacuum. Try again.

Obviously, bacterias that thrive in human-friendly environment won't
thrive on Mars surface.


Obviously.

But we can't know that some bacterias on earth
might be able to adapt to Mars and thrive in/below the sand.


Again, how about an example. Still waiting...


There are even some animals, let alone bacteria, that can survive the
voyage from Earth to Mars in the vacuum and with the radiations.
Tardigrades for example can do so. That is just surviving, not thriving.
But once you go "below the sand", if you give a sufficiently extreme
meaning to that, you can find many bacteria that can thrive in that
environment.


Alain Fournier
  #9  
Old June 25th 18, 08:13 PM posted to sci.space.policy
jacob navia
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 341
Default Bacteria in spaeships

Le 25/06/2018 Ã* 13:17, Jeff Findley a écritÂ*:
Not near vacuum. Try again.

Obviously, bacterias that thrive in human-friendly environment won't
thrive on Mars surface.

Obviously.

But we can't know that some bacterias on earth
might be able to adapt to Mars and thrive in/below the sand.

Again, how about an example. Still waiting...


Earth Bacteria Survive a 553-Day Space Exposure on the Exterior of the ISS.
https://www.popsci.com/technology/ar...e-exterior-iss


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11913418
Physical dosimetric evaluations in the Apollo 16 microbial response
experiment.

https://www.nature.com/articles/ismej201146
Exposure of phototrophs to 548 days in low Earth orbit: microbial
selection pressures in outer space and on early earth

Bacteria survive an hypervelocity impact:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...387?via%3Dihub
Survivability of Bacteria in Hypervelocity Impact
From the abstract:
....bacteria can survive a hypervelocity impact and subsequently grow.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...60982208008051
Tardigrades survive exposure to space in low Earth orbit
Tardigrades are water bears. They survive space conditions.

Enough?

I could go on...
  #10  
Old June 26th 18, 02:04 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Jeff Findley[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,307
Default Bacteria in spaeships

In article ,
says...

Le 25/06/2018 à 13:17, Jeff Findley a écrit*:
Not near vacuum. Try again.

Obviously, bacterias that thrive in human-friendly environment won't
thrive on Mars surface.

Obviously.

But we can't know that some bacterias on earth
might be able to adapt to Mars and thrive in/below the sand.

Again, how about an example. Still waiting...


Earth Bacteria Survive a 553-Day Space Exposure on the Exterior of the ISS.
https://www.popsci.com/technology/ar...e-exterior-iss


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11913418
Physical dosimetric evaluations in the Apollo 16 microbial response
experiment.

https://www.nature.com/articles/ismej201146
Exposure of phototrophs to 548 days in low Earth orbit: microbial
selection pressures in outer space and on early earth

Bacteria survive an hypervelocity impact:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...387?via%3Dihub
Survivability of Bacteria in Hypervelocity Impact
From the abstract:
...bacteria can survive a hypervelocity impact and subsequently grow.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...60982208008051
Tardigrades survive exposure to space in low Earth orbit
Tardigrades are water bears. They survive space conditions.

Enough?

I could go on...


I call bull****.

You're the one who used the word "thrive". These are *not* examples of
bacteria thriving under something close to Mars conditions. These are
examples of them surviving exposure to vacuum, but they weren't growing,
weren't reproducing, and etc. They were essentially dormant.

Jeff
--
All opinions posted by me on Usenet News are mine, and mine alone.
These posts do not reflect the opinions of my family, friends,
employer, or any organization that I am a member of.
 




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