More ET foam woes

Herb Schaltegger wrote:

Lots of stuff has "already [been] done." That doesn't mean it's been
done thoroughly enough, nor well enough.

The only purpose of the ISS is to utilise Russian knowhow to build a
station so that NASA can pretend to the US people that their actually
capable of it.

Right. That's why all the largest volume is the U.S. Lab, the core to
the design are the Nodes and the whole thing is hanging off the U.S.
truss.

**** the Russians - they were brought in as a way to save costs and all
the money and technical know-how built up during Space Station Freedom.
They're involvement has only complicated things, resulted in endless
redesigns and rescheduling to accommodate the higher orbital
inclination, and actually increased total program costs.

Sure there is some american involvement hence why its
over budget and a joke.

You're an idiot.

Hmmm, an ISS without the Russians ...

Who's an idiot?

http://cosmic.lifeform.org

On Sat, 3 Dec 2005 11:42:34 -0600, Brian Thorn wrote
(in article ):

On Sat, 03 Dec 2005 14:39:58 GMT, Monte Davis
wrote:

Considering how much we'd burned through with no hardware to show for
it *before* their involvement, one could argue that the "total program
costs" 1984-1992 were effectively infinite.

It was about $8 billion, according to official NASA budgets.

Brian

And Monte's wrong about "no hardware to show for it" before Russian
involvement, too. It would be nice if folks got their facts straight
about this stuff.

--
"Fame may be fleeting but obscurity is forever." ~Anonymous
"I believe as little as possible and know as much as I can."
~Todd Stuart Phillips
www.angryherb.net

On Sat, 03 Dec 2005 14:39:58 GMT, in a place far, far away, Monte
Davis made the phosphor on my monitor glow
in such a way as to indicate that:

Herb Schaltegger wrote:

**** the Russians - they were brought in as a way to save costs and all
the money and technical know-how built up during Space Station Freedom.

Umm... and as a way to get *anything* built. For all the complaints
about the consequences of internationalization, the real political
alternative in 1992-1994 was not a nifty all-American station in a
lower-inclination orbit, but none at all.

Which in retrospect would have been better.

On Sat, 3 Dec 2005 10:54:18 -0500, in a place far, far away, "Terrell
Miller" made the phosphor on my monitor glow
in such a way as to indicate that:

What useful things, as specifically as possible, is the "completed"
ISS supposed to be used for?


A. Provide jobs for NASA personnel.
B. Funnel federal money into the aerospace industry.
C. Give the Russians somewhere to send space tourists.
D. Look real bright in the night sky.
E. Maybe some science stuff too. :-)


F) keep Russian aerospace workers from getting recruited by Iran

Yeah, *that* worked real well...

On 3 Dec 2005 10:56:36 -0800, wrote:


Sure there is some american involvement hence why its
over budget and a joke.

You're an idiot.

Hmmm, an ISS without the Russians ...

....would have been Space Station Freedom, which was essentially
design-complete when Clinton killed it.

Brian

On Sat, 03 Dec 2005 16:43:56 GMT, in a place far, far away, Monte
Davis made the phosphor on my monitor glow
in such a way as to indicate that:

(Rand Simberg) wrote:


Which in retrospect would have been better.

Could well be, if the same funds had been used for space (not a given)
and more productively (ditto).

Actually, even if not.

I'm not a big fan of the ISS we got, but -- as with the shuttle and
other topics -- I prefer to measure what we got against the
alternatives available at the time, not best-of-all-possible-worlds
hindsight. YMMV.

It does.

In article .com,
"Jake McGuire" wrote:

What useful things, as specifically as possible, is the "completed"
ISS supposed to be used for?

1) On-orbit testing/qualification of subcomponents intended for use in
zero-G.
2) Further characterizing the influence of zero-G on humans.
3) Determining effectiveness of remedies to the negative effects of
zero-G.

All for the low low price of one hundred billion dollars. But wait!...

4) Characterizing the effects of partial G on living organisms (but I
think the CAM is dead.)

*Now* what would you pay?

On Sat, 3 Dec 2005 13:12:53 -0600, in a place far, far away, Herb
Schaltegger made the
phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that:

Considering how much we'd burned through with no hardware to show for
it *before* their involvement, one could argue that the "total program
costs" 1984-1992 were effectively infinite.

It was about $8 billion, according to official NASA budgets.

Brian

And Monte's wrong about "no hardware to show for it" before Russian
involvement, too. It would be nice if folks got their facts straight
about this stuff.

Well, there was no hardware in orbit.

On Sat, 3 Dec 2005 14:21:51 -0600, Brian Thorn wrote
(in article ):

On 3 Dec 2005 10:56:36 -0800, wrote:


Sure there is some american involvement hence why its
over budget and a joke.

You're an idiot.

Hmmm, an ISS without the Russians ...

...would have been Space Station Freedom, which was essentially
design-complete when Clinton killed it.

WAS design-complete. CDR was done four or five months prior. We were
just closing RIDs and riding the subcontractors. FEL was less than two
years ago (1995) with PMC set for circa-1997. Assembly Complete (with
8 man crew) would've been 2001 or thereabouts.
..
Brian



--
"Fame may be fleeting but obscurity is forever." ~Anonymous
"I believe as little as possible and know as much as I can."
~Todd Stuart Phillips
www.angryherb.net

On Sat, 03 Dec 2005 14:21:51 -0600, in a place far, far away, Brian
Thorn made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such
a way as to indicate that:

Sure there is some american involvement hence why its
over budget and a joke.

You're an idiot.

Hmmm, an ISS without the Russians ...

...would have been Space Station Freedom, which was essentially
design-complete when Clinton killed it.

If Clinton hadn't, Congress would have. In fact did...

And it's not clear how buildable or affordable that "design complete"
was.