human overhead

Henry Spencer wrote:
foods. Anything you can get by growing plants is a useful supplement, but
with reasonably-sized facilities you probably can't grow a large fraction
of the necessary diet anyway.

Have they really solved the problem of moss growing in Mir ? If they start
growing plants in large enough quantities, can they really limit the growth to
the designated areas ? Or will they have to spray the fungicide every day on
all surfaces outside the "vegetable garden" ?

While it is true that you couldn't expect to grow your food on such a ship,
having a large enough "green" area might be a nice bonus. They may be able to
have fresh vegetables now and then, and would have some "greenery" to remain
human, and the garden might help with air recycling. (and provide something
for them to take care of).

Except for details of how well equipment works in free fall, essentially
all the work for this can be done on the ground. There is no need to get
the station involved.

Isn't the detail of 0g the biggest factor in all of the ECLSS problems ?
isn't radiation a huge detail in the reliability of electronics on board ?
(especially commodity stuff like laptops ?)




It occurred to me last week that most of the weight could be eliminated by
flying a one-way mission.

It just makes the ship bigger to have the added supplies to last longer.

A lifetime supply of food and spare parts is almost certainly lighter than
a fueled return vehicle. The idea is worth considering.

The challenge will be developping good food that won't spoil for that time...

Available off the shelf in any camping-supplies store.
--
MOST launched 30 June; science observations running | Henry Spencer
since Oct; first surprises seen; papers pending. |

Richard Cochran wrote:


Though I don't know for certain, my guess is that the best
compromise is to maintain a relatively healthy, limber,
agile body weight.


Are you saying that you are a low-fat source of food? Look! Over
there.... isn't that a Martian Ice Princess?
Ker-whack!

Pat

"John Doe" wrote in message
...
Henry Spencer wrote:
foods. Anything you can get by growing plants is a useful supplement,
but
with reasonably-sized facilities you probably can't grow a large
fraction
of the necessary diet anyway.

Have they really solved the problem of moss growing in Mir ?

Yes, I can safely say there's no more moss growing in Mir.

In article ,
Herb Schaltegger lid wrote:
...When you leave LEO and easy access to shuttle-launched
gas and water (metabolized from the fresh food, remember) closing the air
and water ECLSS loops becomes much more important.

The water loop, most definitely. The air loop, *possibly* not -- just
dumping the CO2 and bringing along about 0.85kg/man-day of LOX (call it
1t/man for a three-year mission) is not ideal, but not unthinkable either.
--
MOST launched 30 June; science observations running | Henry Spencer
since Oct; first surprises seen; papers pending. |

Greg D. Moore (Strider) wrote:

Yes, I can safely say there's no more moss growing in Mir.


How about coral?

Pat

In article , John Doe wrote:
Except for details of how well equipment works in free fall, essentially
all the work for this can be done on the ground. There is no need to get
the station involved.

Isn't the detail of 0g the biggest factor in all of the ECLSS problems ?

Not really. Getting the details of the processes right is the hard part.
Engineering the result to work in free fall isn't trivial, but it's a
lesser step; if worst comes to worst, you can apply a bit of centrifugal
force for the hard parts (no need to worry about microgravity quality).

isn't radiation a huge detail in the reliability of electronics on board ?
(especially commodity stuff like laptops ?)

Not really very much of one. The radiation issue is greatly exaggerated.
Some concern is warranted for mission-critical or life-critical systems
that absolutely have to be up all the time. Otherwise, for anything
important you need ECC memory, and perhaps some willingness to tolerate
crashes in solar-flare season, but that's about it. If the radiation
environment is okay for years of human exposure, it's okay for the
electronics too.
--
MOST launched 30 June; science observations running | Henry Spencer
since Oct; first surprises seen; papers pending. |

"John Doe"

There is also a lack of experience in growing plants in space in
sufficient
quantities to be of use, but without causing major
humidity/corrosion/mushrooms/moss problems to the rest of the station.

This is probably a necessary technology for inter-stellar travel, but not a
Mars trip.

In article , Kent Betts wrote:

There is also a lack of experience in growing plants in space in
sufficient quantities to be of use, but without causing major
humidity/corrosion/mushrooms/moss problems to the rest of the station.

This is probably a necessary technology for inter-stellar travel, but not a
Mars trip.

There are advantages to it, though; ISTR there being psychological
benefits noted from the "life" experiments on spaceflights - or was that
just the "cute ickle things that run around" ones? It gives the crew
something relaxing to occupy themselves with, and isn't horrifically
massy. Still doesn't help it with the whole "providing food" aspect, but
there are arguably things to be said for it anyway.

--
-Andrew Gray

"Andrew Gray" wrote in message
. ..
In article , Kent Betts wrote:

There is also a lack of experience in growing plants in space in
sufficient quantities to be of use, but without causing major
humidity/corrosion/mushrooms/moss problems to the rest of the station.

This is probably a necessary technology for inter-stellar travel, but
not a
Mars trip.

There are advantages to it, though; ISTR there being psychological
benefits noted from the "life" experiments on spaceflights - or was that
just the "cute ickle things that run around" ones?

Mir crews reported that they derived great satisfaction from growing plants.