Galaxies already had enough material to form planets and life inthe early Universe!

Le 20/05/12 16:43, John Polasek a écrit :
I never denied lightning could join hydrogen and oxygen, it's an
extension of high school chemistry. But that's the end of its
virtuosity.

I am talking about life elements adenine, guanine, cytosine and
thymine, molecules of far greater complexity and how they; are able to
work together.

These operate in pairs:
adenine with guanine;
cytosine with thymine.

adenine has
N4H4C3+NH2
while guanine has
N4H4C3+O
adenine has to have the prescience to look for a partner guanine and
they pair up.
Ponder a bit and see if you can envision these bases inventing
themselves and in such an ingenious way by linking O and NH2. They
must be able in some way to sense that this is a bright idea.
John Polasek



Religious people just see what they want to see. For instance you did
not see Physics World with this news:

Glycine - CH2NH2COOH - is the simplest of all the 20 amino acids.
Yi-Jehng Kuan of the National Taiwan Normal University and co-workers
from the NASA Ames Research Center and the Polish Academy of Sciences
searched for the molecule in the hot cores of three giant molecular
clouds, which are regions of active star formation. They measured the
spectral lines of the clouds - Sagittarius-B2, Orion-KL and W51 - over a
four-year period using the 12-metre telescope at the National Radio
Astronomy Observatory (NRAO) in Arizona.


The researchers claim that the discovery of glycine is the first step in
establishing the crucial link between amino acids in space and the
emergence of life in the solar system or, indeed, elsewhere in the galaxy.

See the rest in:
http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/...ected-in-space

What you will say now?

On Sun, 20 May 2012 21:27:19 +0200, jacob navia
wrote:

Le 20/05/12 16:43, John Polasek a écrit :
I never denied lightning could join hydrogen and oxygen, it's an
extension of high school chemistry. But that's the end of its
virtuosity.

I am talking about life elements adenine, guanine, cytosine and
thymine, molecules of far greater complexity and how they; are able to
work together.

These operate in pairs:
adenine with guanine;
cytosine with thymine.

adenine has
N4H4C3+NH2
while guanine has
N4H4C3+O
adenine has to have the prescience to look for a partner guanine and
they pair up.
Ponder a bit and see if you can envision these bases inventing
themselves and in such an ingenious way by linking O and NH2. They
must be able in some way to sense that this is a bright idea.
John Polasek



Religious people just see what they want to see. For instance you did
not see Physics World with this news:

Glycine - CH2NH2COOH - is the simplest of all the 20 amino acids.
Yi-Jehng Kuan of the National Taiwan Normal University and co-workers
from the NASA Ames Research Center and the Polish Academy of Sciences
searched for the molecule in the hot cores of three giant molecular
clouds, which are regions of active star formation. They measured the
spectral lines of the clouds - Sagittarius-B2, Orion-KL and W51 - over a
four-year period using the 12-metre telescope at the National Radio
Astronomy Observatory (NRAO) in Arizona.


The researchers claim that the discovery of glycine is the first step in
establishing the crucial link between amino acids in space and the
emergence of life in the solar system or, indeed, elsewhere in the galaxy.

See the rest in:
http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/...ected-in-space

What you will say now?
Tell them to leave the telescopes on while they are at it, and find
adenine, guanine, cytosine and thymine in space also. I'm not saying
they couldn't.
You seem to think that it's up to me to conclude that these could come
crashing to earth or its equivalent and self-organizing 6 billion of
these at a time into a chain that works (in each cell , not one of
which had yet been created).
But why not just make up some Florence flasks each full of one of the
bases and then start sloshing them together and see what comes out.
Give the process a chance. Then, if nothing works, bring in the
lightning.

John Polasek

On May 19, 6:26*pm, Sam Wormley wrote:
On 5/19/12 4:25 PM, GogoJF wrote:



The universe we observe is all the same age.

* *Actually when we look out, we look back in time, because of the
* *finite speed of light.

* *We see; the moon as it was 1.3 seconds ago. The sun is as it
* *was more than eight minutes ago. The Andromeda galaxy 2.5 million
* *years ago... The CMB shows us features of the universe 13.7 Gyrs
* *ago.

* *Quoting astronomer Sandy Faber, "These giant telescopes, they
* *are the only true time machines that human beings have and they
* *are totally faithful. There's nothing hokey about this. You look
* *through a giant telescope, you get a view of a very distant region
* *of space, and it is as though you were a historian and could put
* *your eye to a telescope and actually see Hannibal crossing the
* *Alps and all those elephants trotting along. We are actually
* *seeing the universe and the things in it behaving as they did
* *billions of years ago".

I do not believe you can travel into the past or future. How are
telescopes faithful? A single optical image is not translated like
signals. The act of observing stars is a one-way operation not two-
way. The measurement of the "finite speed of light" is a two-way
measure. We have never placed a "clock" on the moon, sun, and stars
so how do we know that what we see is finitely measured?

On 5/20/12 4:21 PM, GogoJF wrote:
On May 19, 6:26 pm, Sam wrote:
On 5/19/12 4:25 PM, GogoJF wrote:



The universe we observe is all the same age.

Actually when we look out, we look back in time, because of the
finite speed of light.

We see; the moon as it was 1.3 seconds ago. The sun is as it
was more than eight minutes ago. The Andromeda galaxy 2.5 million
years ago... The CMB shows us features of the universe 13.7 Gyrs
ago.

Quoting astronomer Sandy Faber, "These giant telescopes, they
are the only true time machines that human beings have and they
are totally faithful. There's nothing hokey about this. You look
through a giant telescope, you get a view of a very distant region
of space, and it is as though you were a historian and could put
your eye to a telescope and actually see Hannibal crossing the
Alps and all those elephants trotting along. We are actually
seeing the universe and the things in it behaving as they did
billions of years ago".

I do not believe you can travel into the past or future. How are
telescopes faithful? A single optical image is not translated like
signals. The act of observing stars is a one-way operation not two-
way. The measurement of the "finite speed of light" is a two-way
measure. We have never placed a "clock" on the moon, sun, and stars
so how do we know that what we see is finitely measured?

Laser reflections from reflectors left on the moon during the Apollo
program provide precision distance measurement of the moon. The round
trip time is on the order of 2.6 seconds.

On May 20, 6:07*pm, Sam Wormley wrote:
On 5/20/12 4:21 PM, GogoJF wrote:









On May 19, 6:26 pm, Sam *wrote:
On 5/19/12 4:25 PM, GogoJF wrote:

The universe we observe is all the same age.

* * Actually when we look out, we look back in time, because of the
* * finite speed of light.

* * We see; the moon as it was 1.3 seconds ago. The sun is as it
* * was more than eight minutes ago. The Andromeda galaxy 2.5 million
* * years ago... The CMB shows us features of the universe 13.7 Gyrs
* * ago.

* * Quoting astronomer Sandy Faber, "These giant telescopes, they
* * are the only true time machines that human beings have and they
* * are totally faithful. There's nothing hokey about this. You look
* * through a giant telescope, you get a view of a very distant region
* * of space, and it is as though you were a historian and could put
* * your eye to a telescope and actually see Hannibal crossing the
* * Alps and all those elephants trotting along. We are actually
* * seeing the universe and the things in it behaving as they did
* * billions of years ago".

I do not believe you can travel into the past or future. *How are
telescopes faithful? A single optical image is not translated like
signals. *The act of observing stars is a one-way operation not two-
way. *The measurement of the "finite speed of light" is a two-way
measure. *We have never placed a "clock" on the moon, sun, and stars
so how do we know that what we see is finitely measured?

* *Laser reflections from reflectors left on the moon during the Apollo
* *program provide precision distance measurement of the moon. The round
* *trip time is on the order of 2.6 seconds.

Yes, but these are just signals- not optical processes.

Le 20/05/12 22:49, John Polasek a écrit :
On Sun, 20 May 2012 21:27:19 +0200, jacob
wrote:

Le 20/05/12 16:43, John Polasek a écrit :
I never denied lightning could join hydrogen and oxygen, it's an
extension of high school chemistry. But that's the end of its
virtuosity.

I am talking about life elements adenine, guanine, cytosine and
thymine, molecules of far greater complexity and how they; are able to
work together.

These operate in pairs:
adenine with guanine;
cytosine with thymine.

adenine has
N4H4C3+NH2
while guanine has
N4H4C3+O
adenine has to have the prescience to look for a partner guanine and
they pair up.
Ponder a bit and see if you can envision these bases inventing
themselves and in such an ingenious way by linking O and NH2. They
must be able in some way to sense that this is a bright idea.
John Polasek



Religious people just see what they want to see. For instance you did
not see Physics World with this news:

Glycine - CH2NH2COOH - is the simplest of all the 20 amino acids.
Yi-Jehng Kuan of the National Taiwan Normal University and co-workers
from the NASA Ames Research Center and the Polish Academy of Sciences
searched for the molecule in the hot cores of three giant molecular
clouds, which are regions of active star formation. They measured the
spectral lines of the clouds - Sagittarius-B2, Orion-KL and W51 - over a
four-year period using the 12-metre telescope at the National Radio
Astronomy Observatory (NRAO) in Arizona.


The researchers claim that the discovery of glycine is the first step in
establishing the crucial link between amino acids in space and the
emergence of life in the solar system or, indeed, elsewhere in the galaxy.

See the rest in:
http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/...ected-in-space

What you will say now?
Tell them to leave the telescopes on while they are at it, and find
adenine, guanine, cytosine and thymine in space also. I'm not saying
they couldn't.

Yes, I bet we will find them too.

You seem to think that it's up to me to conclude that these could come
crashing to earth or its equivalent and self-organizing 6 billion of
these at a time into a chain that works (in each cell , not one of
which had yet been created).

Nobody knows how life begun. Nobody knows what happens after we die.

Very few people know the mystery of life and those who know do not speak
and those who speak do not know.

The pope doesn't know, nor any priest, nor any religious moron.

Atheists do not deny the mystery of life. They just deny the existence
of that "god" that nobody has ever seen.

How can life be? It is 100% impossible and yet it exists. And we do
not know, and the only way out of this is to study and to investigate
and to go the way of knowledge till we find out.

Science is the only hope of mankind; Religion is the root of all evil.


But why not just make up some Florence flasks each full of one of the
bases and then start sloshing them together and see what comes out.
Give the process a chance. Then, if nothing works, bring in the
lightning.

John Polasek

On May 20, 6:31*pm, GogoJF wrote:
On May 20, 6:07*pm, Sam Wormley wrote:









On 5/20/12 4:21 PM, GogoJF wrote:

On May 19, 6:26 pm, Sam *wrote:
On 5/19/12 4:25 PM, GogoJF wrote:

The universe we observe is all the same age.

* * Actually when we look out, we look back in time, because of the
* * finite speed of light.

* * We see; the moon as it was 1.3 seconds ago. The sun is as it
* * was more than eight minutes ago. The Andromeda galaxy 2.5 million
* * years ago... The CMB shows us features of the universe 13.7 Gyrs
* * ago.

* * Quoting astronomer Sandy Faber, "These giant telescopes, they
* * are the only true time machines that human beings have and they
* * are totally faithful. There's nothing hokey about this. You look
* * through a giant telescope, you get a view of a very distant region
* * of space, and it is as though you were a historian and could put
* * your eye to a telescope and actually see Hannibal crossing the
* * Alps and all those elephants trotting along. We are actually
* * seeing the universe and the things in it behaving as they did
* * billions of years ago".

I do not believe you can travel into the past or future. *How are
telescopes faithful? A single optical image is not translated like
signals. *The act of observing stars is a one-way operation not two-
way. *The measurement of the "finite speed of light" is a two-way
measure. *We have never placed a "clock" on the moon, sun, and stars
so how do we know that what we see is finitely measured?

* *Laser reflections from reflectors left on the moon during the Apollo
* *program provide precision distance measurement of the moon. The round
* *trip time is on the order of 2.6 seconds.

Yes, but these are just signals- not optical processes.

Could the "cause"- the internal workings the the human apparatus (the
observer and all instruments he uses)- be the "effect" of observation?

"jacob navia" wrote in message
...
Le 20/05/12 22:49, John Polasek a icrit :
On Sun, 20 May 2012 21:27:19 +0200, jacob
wrote:

Le 20/05/12 16:43, John Polasek a icrit :
I never denied lightning could join hydrogen and oxygen, it's an
extension of high school chemistry. But that's the end of its
virtuosity.

I am talking about life elements adenine, guanine, cytosine and
thymine, molecules of far greater complexity and how they; are able to
work together.

These operate in pairs:
adenine with guanine;
cytosine with thymine.

adenine has
N4H4C3+NH2
while guanine has
N4H4C3+O
adenine has to have the prescience to look for a partner guanine and
they pair up.
Ponder a bit and see if you can envision these bases inventing
themselves and in such an ingenious way by linking O and NH2. They
must be able in some way to sense that this is a bright idea.
John Polasek



Religious people just see what they want to see. For instance you did
not see Physics World with this news:

Glycine - CH2NH2COOH - is the simplest of all the 20 amino acids.
Yi-Jehng Kuan of the National Taiwan Normal University and co-workers
from the NASA Ames Research Center and the Polish Academy of Sciences
searched for the molecule in the hot cores of three giant molecular
clouds, which are regions of active star formation. They measured the
spectral lines of the clouds - Sagittarius-B2, Orion-KL and W51 - over a
four-year period using the 12-metre telescope at the National Radio
Astronomy Observatory (NRAO) in Arizona.


The researchers claim that the discovery of glycine is the first step in
establishing the crucial link between amino acids in space and the
emergence of life in the solar system or, indeed, elsewhere in the
galaxy.

See the rest in:
http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/...ected-in-space

What you will say now?
Tell them to leave the telescopes on while they are at it, and find
adenine, guanine, cytosine and thymine in space also. I'm not saying
they couldn't.

Yes, I bet we will find them too.

You seem to think that it's up to me to conclude that these could come
crashing to earth or its equivalent and self-organizing 6 billion of
these at a time into a chain that works (in each cell , not one of
which had yet been created).

Nobody knows how life begun. Nobody knows what happens after we die.

Very few people know the mystery of life and those who know do not speak
and those who speak do not know.

The pope doesn't know, nor any priest, nor any religious moron.

Atheists do not deny the mystery of life. They just deny the existence
of that "god" that nobody has ever seen.

How can life be? It is 100% impossible and yet it exists. And we do
not know, and the only way out of this is to study and to investigate
and to go the way of knowledge till we find out.

Science is the only hope of mankind; Religion is the root of all evil.

You are right in principle, Jacob, but I do know that after death
my existence will be exactly as it was before I became aware.
I think, therefore I am. When I am not, I shall not think.

On Mon, 21 May 2012 02:26:02 +0100, "Androcles" wrote:


"jacob navia" wrote in message
...
Le 20/05/12 22:49, John Polasek a icrit :
On Sun, 20 May 2012 21:27:19 +0200, jacob
wrote:

Le 20/05/12 16:43, John Polasek a icrit :
I never denied lightning could join hydrogen and oxygen, it's an
extension of high school chemistry. But that's the end of its
virtuosity.

I am talking about life elements adenine, guanine, cytosine and
thymine, molecules of far greater complexity and how they; are able to
work together.

These operate in pairs:
adenine with guanine;
cytosine with thymine.

adenine has
N4H4C3+NH2
while guanine has
N4H4C3+O
adenine has to have the prescience to look for a partner guanine and
they pair up.
Ponder a bit and see if you can envision these bases inventing
themselves and in such an ingenious way by linking O and NH2. They
must be able in some way to sense that this is a bright idea.
John Polasek



Religious people just see what they want to see. For instance you did
not see Physics World with this news:

Glycine - CH2NH2COOH - is the simplest of all the 20 amino acids.
Yi-Jehng Kuan of the National Taiwan Normal University and co-workers
from the NASA Ames Research Center and the Polish Academy of Sciences
searched for the molecule in the hot cores of three giant molecular
clouds, which are regions of active star formation. They measured the
spectral lines of the clouds - Sagittarius-B2, Orion-KL and W51 - over a
four-year period using the 12-metre telescope at the National Radio
Astronomy Observatory (NRAO) in Arizona.


The researchers claim that the discovery of glycine is the first step in
establishing the crucial link between amino acids in space and the
emergence of life in the solar system or, indeed, elsewhere in the
galaxy.

See the rest in:
http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/...ected-in-space

What you will say now?
Tell them to leave the telescopes on while they are at it, and find
adenine, guanine, cytosine and thymine in space also. I'm not saying
they couldn't.

Yes, I bet we will find them too.

You seem to think that it's up to me to conclude that these could come
crashing to earth or its equivalent and self-organizing 6 billion of
these at a time into a chain that works (in each cell , not one of
which had yet been created).

Nobody knows how life begun. Nobody knows what happens after we die.

Very few people know the mystery of life and those who know do not speak
and those who speak do not know.

The pope doesn't know, nor any priest, nor any religious moron.
Science too is severely limited, believing without qualm in dark
matter and dark energy, freely fabricating Wimps, machos, neutralinos,
that is nothing more than modern age phlogiston.
Atheists do not deny the mystery of life. They just deny the existence
of that "god" that nobody has ever seen.
He gave us a good chance to look when he sent us Jesus Christ, who I
will admit, failed to stand on his head for you.
I think you'll agree in principle that Christianity had made things a
lot more comfortable and safe for you atheists. But as we see
Christianity evaporating, we see young and old reverting to a hitherto
unprecedented savagery as they realize they do not need to answer to a
higher order.
How can life be? It is 100% impossible and yet it exists. And we do
not know, and the only way out of this is to study and to investigate
and to go the way of knowledge till we find out.

Science is the only hope of mankind; Religion is the root of all evil.

You are right in principle, Jacob, but I do know that after death
my existence will be exactly as it was before I became aware.
I think, therefore I am. When I am not, I shall not think.
No, after death you will be unshackled from your bondage to the time
we call NOW. We are all shackled to now now now now now ...
No more now for you.

Please don't judge God by the TV evangelists.

John Polasek

On May 21, 1:47*am, GogoJF wrote:

Could the "cause"- the internal workings the the human apparatus (the
observer and all instruments he uses)- be the "effect" of observation?

Do we question the time it takes for the impact of a distant hammer to
finally reaches our ears?

The observer at the telescope is no different from the general waiting
for a messenger to arrive from the battle front. Nobody questions the
time it takes the runner to carry his message physically to the
commander's tent. The wise general might offer the use of his finest
horse to the messenger where greater distances are involved.

Given enough distance, from the battle front, light itself has exactly
the same problems in reaching the observer as does the messenger.
Light merely travels faster than a runner, horse or sound. So the
distances to achieve any delay are much greater. The speed of light is
as as perfectly defined as that of runners, horses and sound.

The only other alternative is to accept that we are all living in "The
Matrix" and imagining everything which happens to us. Not an easy
choice given our present ability to send message packets between every
single individual of the 7 billion known occupants. Give or take an
inevitable delay.