Rewrite of twilight in Wiki

The reason that twilights are longer at latitudes away from the
Equator is strictly a consequence of rotational speeds,thew slower the
rotational speed the longer the twilight.The orbital twilight at the
polar coordinates is from an entirely different cause as the polar
coordinates pass through the circle of illumination during the great
orbital cycle of the Earth whereas twilight at habitable latitudes are
due to intrinsic rotation.

I had a look at the Wiki explanation as more or less what is out there
and shake my head in the same way I do with much else when
encountering empirical explanations,as though these people were
mocking astronomy but unfortunately they are dead serious -

" This is true because at low latitudes the sun's apparent movement is
perpendicular to the observer's horizon. As one gets closer to the
Arctic and Antarctic circles, the sun's disk moves toward the
observer's horizon at a lower angle. The observer's earthly location
will pass through the various twilight zones less directly, taking
more time."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twilight

Now,students read this stuff and it is up to somebody with a shred of
sanity to explain that latitudinal speeds dictate the transition from
daylight to darkness with the 1037.5 mile per hour equatorial speed
explains why visitors to Bali go from day to night like a switch while
visitors to Norther Europe or Alaska experience those slow descent
into darkness.

The 'amateur' in amateur astronomy has nothing whatsoever to do with
being paid to call oneself an astronomer,it is the love of the
discipline itself whether it is sitting out on the porch or fence
looking into the celestial arena or working out details in context as
I constantly do hence the Latin root of amateur is amatorium or
'lover' and where it connects with all other human endeavors that is
centered in love.It is by this alone that the observer or
investigators sees 10 things in one fact where others see nothing and
while jargon can get the duplicitous so far,the simplicity of the
geometric language constantly refreshes details missed or lain dormant
for the investigator to pick up.The explanation for twilight is like
that.

On 6/19/11 12:22 PM, oriel36 wrote:
The reason that twilights are longer at latitudes away from the
Equator is strictly a consequence of rotational speeds,thew slower the
rotational speed the longer the twilight.

(sigh)

On Jun 19, 7:30*pm, Sam Wormley wrote:
On 6/19/11 12:22 PM, oriel36 wrote:

The reason that twilights are longer at latitudes away from the
Equator is strictly a consequence of rotational speeds,thew slower the
rotational speed the longer the twilight.

* *(sigh)

He is wording it badly, but the sentence you quoted is true enough.

Twilight conditions exist for a certain number of miles on each side
of the terminator.

So, at a higher latitude, where rotation through 360 degrees in 24
hours (since we're talking relative to the terminator, we aren't using
the sidereal day) causes a smaller linear velocity, the radius of the
circle of latitude being longer, a given Earthly location spends
longer in twilight.

Of course, except at the two equinoxes, there's also the angle a
circle of latitude makes with the terminator, the important little
detail his wording excludes.

John Savard

On 6/19/11 9:08 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
On Jun 19, 7:30 pm, Sam wrote:
On 6/19/11 12:22 PM, oriel36 wrote:

The reason that twilights are longer at latitudes away from the
Equator is strictly a consequence of rotational speeds,thew slower the
rotational speed the longer the twilight.

(sigh)

He is wording it badly, but the sentence you quoted is true enough.

Twilight conditions exist for a certain number of miles on each side
of the terminator.

So, at a higher latitude, where rotation through 360 degrees in 24
hours (since we're talking relative to the terminator, we aren't using
the sidereal day) causes a smaller linear velocity, the radius of the
circle of latitude being longer, a given Earthly location spends
longer in twilight.

Of course, except at the two equinoxes, there's also the angle a
circle of latitude makes with the terminator, the important little
detail his wording excludes.

John Savard

thanks John.

Quadibloc writes:

Of course, except at the two equinoxes, there's also the angle a
circle of latitude makes with the terminator, the important little
detail his wording excludes.

That "little detail" is the major effect, and is responsible for the
current bright nights at my latitude (58.8N) and for the midnight sun a
little further north.

Why do you guys continue to entertain that monomatic maniac GK?

pej
--
Per Erik Jorde

"Per Erik Jorde" wrote in message
...
| Quadibloc writes:
|
| Of course, except at the two equinoxes, there's also the angle a
| circle of latitude makes with the terminator, the important little
| detail his wording excludes.
|
| That "little detail" is the major effect, and is responsible for the
| current bright nights at my latitude (58.8N) and for the midnight sun a
| little further north.
|
| Why do you guys continue to entertain that monomatic maniac GK?
|
That's an easy one. If a normal IQ is 100 then Quadiblockhead looks
good at 55 because Aureole's IQ is in the single digits. However,
"little detail" is a classic British understatement intended to convey
a hint of sarcasm, which the Canadian seems to have inherited.

On Jun 20, 10:23*am, Per Erik Jorde wrote:
Quadibloc writes:
Of course, except at the two equinoxes, there's also the angle a
circle of latitude makes with the terminator, the important little
detail his wording excludes.

That "little detail" is the major effect, and is responsible for the
current bright nights at my latitude (58.8N) and for the midnight sun a
little further north.


I assure you,the reason why you experience long twilights in
Stavanger,and I worked in many places in Norway,is due to the
diminished rotational speed away from the Equator.I also lived in
Hammerfest where the polar cycle starts to dominate as the major
influence is the orbital daylight/darkness cycle while at the polar
coordinates the dominance is almost total.

I don;t know what you are,pretend astronomers and indeed the Wiki
article on 'astronomers' makes no bones about the idea that
empiricists and astronomers are the same thing.

Norwegians are normally gifted with common sense and part of that is
the experience which is truly felt at those Northern latitudes,I know
it as I have been there and put the experience in context of planetary
dynamics.If you can't handle that in the South of the country that
there are slow twilights due to daily rotation in comparison to
equatorial latitudes and then in the North of the country,there is a
great appreciation of the separate orbital daylight/darkness cycle,at
least partially.


Why do you guys continue to entertain that monomatic maniac GK?

pej
--
Per Erik Jorde

Affirmation through conviction is a wonderful thing and each and every
country has some rich ties to astronomy via their historical
heritage,the unique traits of each geographical location and any
multitude of influences.All this gets negated when you promote the
toxic strain of empiricism which effectively shuts out all those great
traditions which I enjoy at ease while you cannot.I would say that is
your greatest curse before your family and countrymen .If you want to
understand why twilight varies with latitude I suggest you begin with
arithmetic and specifically the number of rotations in an orbital year
between 365 and 366 rotations or almost 365 1/4 rotations
specifically.

The Greek traitor thinks you can explain a wandering analemma Sun
using planetary dynamics c when his countrymen had distinguished the
motion of the planets from the Sun,the English,despite John Harrison's
achievement can't express the rotation of the Earth once in 24 hours
nor the Dutch who can count and Frisius and Huygens as being
instrumental in the creation of modern timekeeping.The Germans
couldn't care less for Kepler's insight,likewise the Italians and what
Galileo actually thought,it looks like the Poles have completely
disowned Copernicus and even the Western isles of Europe and the
ancient monuments which support reckoning of the Timekeeping
cycles.Think of the great Northern sailors who navigated the roughest
seas on the planet and you have some indication of your own heritage
but it all stops dead when you can't openly express basic astronomical
facts.

I don't curse you,you curse yourself and dishonor your nation for
nothing more than a stupid error somebody made 3 centuries ago I can
can deal with in a few minutes flat.Astronomers indeed !,there is no
such thing presently and it shows.

On Sun, 19 Jun 2011 20:30:39 -0500, Sam Wormley wrote:

On 6/19/11 12:22 PM, oriel36 wrote:
The reason that twilights are longer at latitudes away from the
Equator is strictly a consequence of rotational speeds,thew slower the
rotational speed the longer the twilight.

(sigh)

Please Sam... let it go. 'tis a horse's corpse you be beating ad
infinitum.
--
Email address is a Spam trap.

On Jun 20, 3:30*am, Sam Wormley wrote:
On 6/19/11 12:22 PM, oriel36 wrote:

The reason that twilights are longer at latitudes away from the
Equator is strictly a consequence of rotational speeds,thew slower the
rotational speed the longer the twilight.

* *(sigh.)

There is no mystery to this no more than there are 365 1/4 rotations
in an orbital circuit,a location passing through the circle of
illumination at 1037.5 miles per hour will experience a shorter
twilight compared to higher latitudes which turn slower and this alone
is an effect of a round and rotating Earth.

I have to laugh at all the false pomposity surrounding
Newton,relativity or any other empiricist agenda,if you want any art
of that explained then I will tell you exactly what happened and why
it happened,would love to see others try and become familiar with what
is out there but that hasn't happened yet.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/weather/forecast/2940?

It would be amazing to find somebody who actually is an astronomer and
can read the rotation of the Earth directly out of the data above and
specifically that 1461 rotations correspond to 4 orbital circuits,this
will aid a better interpretation between latitudinal rotational speeds
and twilight lengths with the greatest transition to darkness at a
location on the Equator.;

Sigh all you will,I don't take any of you seriously these days given
your inability to intepret a cause from an observed and experienced
effect nor should I be expected to.

On Jun 20, 12:02*pm, oriel36 wrote:

Sigh all you will,I don't take any of you seriously these days given
your inability to intepret a cause from an observed and experienced
effect nor should I be expected to.

That's all right; we aren't taking you seriously either.

But I really think this is sad. You are intelligent enough to see how
the Newtonian view clashes with common-sense ideas, such as the Earth
rotating once in a 24-hour day, and to be aware of the Equation of
Time, and yet you just miss - by the narrowest of margins - being able
to see _why_ the Newtonian view must be accepted as the truth, and
"common sense" intuitions put aside once again in favor of Newton,
just as they were in favor of Copernicus and Galileo.

Newton continued, completed, and perfected the work of Copernicus,
Galileo, and Kepler. He ended the possibility of any real controversy
over the Copernican system, by unifying the insights of Copernicus,
Galileo, and Kepler into a coherent whole that could not possibly be
bent into either the cosmology of Tycho Brahe or the geocentricism of
antiquity.

By rebelling against Newton in the names of Copernicus, Galileo and
Kepler, you mock the very achievements of theirs which you admire.

And your failure in this regard makes me want to scream... it makes me
feel, but on a smaller scale, like you must feel about the empiricist
astronomical community around you, which you imagine to have gotten
everything tragically wrong. What's sad is that you don't have to
torture yourself like that; all you have to do is stop, rest, think,
and open your mind to the possibility that you may have been the one
who is wrong.

You've seen that I have the patience to explain these matters to you
in terms you can understand.

John Savard