|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#51
|
|||
|
|||
|
#52
|
|||
|
|||
In article , Robert Kolker says...
Greg D. Moore (Strider) wrote: Going to Everest is hardly exploring. We know what's there. What was unknown was whether a human could survive the climb. That was far from clear. The first successful climb was made without oxygen tanks, by the way. Adapting to 30,000 msl is a non-trivial, nay a darn near impossible task. Yes it is, which is why it was not done until 1978, by Messner and Habeler, both of whom are believed to have suffered minor brain damage in the process. Actually, a fair number of people believed Messner was suffering from brain damage beforehand, but he did at least prove that it was possible to summit Everest without bottled oxygen. Hillary and Norgay, when they made the first successful climb in 1953, damn well did use bottled oxygen, and lots of it. -- *John Schilling * "Anything worth doing, * *Member:AIAA,NRA,ACLU,SAS,LP * is worth doing for money" * *Chief Scientist & General Partner * -13th Rule of Acquisition * *White Elephant Research, LLC * "There is no substitute * * for success" * *661-718-0955 or 661-275-6795 * -58th Rule of Acquisition * |
#53
|
|||
|
|||
|
#55
|
|||
|
|||
|
#56
|
|||
|
|||
"Wayne Throop" wrote in message
... : "Pete Lynn" : Why has evolution imbued you with an instinct for : exploration if it does not profit by it? Supposing that "drive to explore" is an adaptive trait, and not just a side-effect of an adaptive trait at best, is sort of like asking "why did you stop kicking that puppy". Well, he had already confessed to kicking that puppy... Seems to me I recall several good examples (presented by Gould I think) where one of the evolutionary "just so" stories about How Humans Got their Spots (or whathaveyou) turns out to be just that; confabulated stories/myths. But sadly, I can't call one to mind just now. Probably some of the social- darwinism pop-sci stuff from a while back. Exploring because you were simply pushed out does sound far less romantic. Having said that, many swarming insects seem prone to mass emigration, I do not immediately see how this is not pre programmed behaviour. Further, it would not surprise me if human beings possessed such base type instinctive behaviour, or side effects there of. Genetic determinism, seems to be one of the default positions when brains are not used. But whether I can remember the specific cases or not, I remain skeptical when people come up with wonderful little explanations of why this or that personality trait is as it is because of evolutionary manifest destiny. Yes it is all annoyingly difficult to prove/disprove. But I'm not bitter; no, I'm not bitter. :-) Pete. |
#57
|
|||
|
|||
Robert Kolker wrote: wrote: If the opportunity were available there would be no shortage of qualified 'explorers'. Where your argument gets downright silly is the comparison with the historical exploration of earth. The new world wasn't so much explored as exploited, first for gold then for furs and land. Also you could live their without a space-suit. Bob Kolker Touche. Also there was timber for the conquistidor's ships, native game for food and eventually the 'killer app', farming tobacco. The explorations were relatively cheap to undertake, Ferdinand and Isabella paid for Chris's trip with profits from salt evaporation ponds. They were certainly expecting a return on investment. It looks a little less like exploration when every rock, crater and sand dune over a few feet in size can be seen from orbit. The real exploration will be in drilling for marsologic history, water and possible life, but this can be done by robots. Given that a space 'station' could be moved with a mass driver, it might make sense to station it in orbit around mars where samples from the surface could be investigated, instead of putting humans down the gravity well. If the purpose of exploration is to discover new knowledge than equipment made for that purpose is the proper means. Is the space telescope any less of an explorer because there isn't a human peering through the eyepiece? BTW, I have always admired the intelligence of your posts to spr, thanks for going easy on me. |
#58
|
|||
|
|||
On 21-May-2005, "Paul F. Dietz" wrote: Exploration leads to moving. A species that is spread around is less vulnerable to localized disaster. After any reasonably plausible disaster, Earth is still more habitable than any place in space would be. Nova? Maybe even some types of biological disaster. |
#60
|
|||
|
|||
Robert Kolker wrote:
lclough wrote: future. To pry Mars money away from the old folks' pensions, the collapsing health-care system and the highway fund, a really cogent and powerful reason will have to be presented. There is no such reason. The only way humans are going to get to Mars is if some genius comes up with a cheap and ultracapable propulsion system that is not even in sight in the Think Tanks. What are the odds of that? Well, that is one possibility. (Nobody is doing research on it so far as I know -- heck, we aren't even really putting any work into finding a substitute for oil, even though getting the petroleum monkey off our backs would put paid to Al Quaeda for ever.) I can think of at least a couple other ways to kick the system into gear. If, for instance, China mounted up a really credible threat to US hegemony and then proposed building a military base on Phobos. Another classic hardy perennial, which we have all seen in movies, would be ETs. An INDEPENDENCE DAY scenario. But in the near term, realistically? Politically impossible. -- --------- Brenda W. Clough http://www.sff.net/people/Brenda/ Recent short fiction: PARADOX, Autumn 2003 http://home.nyc.rr.com/paradoxmag//index.html Upcoming short fiction in FIRST HEROES (TOR, May '04) http://members.aol.com/wenamun/firstheroes.html |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Celestron Celestar C8 Dec Drive Motor / Hand Controller | dean | UK Astronomy | 3 | January 15th 05 12:27 AM |
Mars Exploration Rover Update - November 8, 2004 | Ron | Astronomy Misc | 0 | November 9th 04 05:13 PM |
Getting a Edmund 6 newt clock drive to work | robertebeary | Amateur Astronomy | 0 | June 23rd 04 05:07 AM |
Problems with Celestron 11" Ultima clock drive | Charles Burgess | Amateur Astronomy | 0 | June 20th 04 11:51 PM |
Spirit Ready to Drive Onto Mars Surface | Ron | Astronomy Misc | 0 | January 15th 04 04:09 PM |