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  #1  
Old December 27th 13, 10:30 PM posted to sci.space.station
Brian Gaff
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Default Cooling loop

So will they ever be able to get the old unit back to see what went wrong? I
don't see any obvious way to do it unless they want to take it apart on
orbit or something.

Brian

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From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active


  #2  
Old December 28th 13, 03:25 AM posted to sci.space.station
snidely
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Default Cooling loop

JF Mezei wrote on 12/27/2013 :
On 13-12-27 16:30, Brian Gaff wrote:
So will they ever be able to get the old unit back to see what went wrong? I
don't see any obvious way to do it unless they want to take it apart on
orbit or something.


I doubt very much they would allow anything that had ammonia in it to go
indoors and travel with a soyuz down.

Perhaps if they could have put the unit into a sealed plastic bag, they
may have been able to bring it in the airlock and then put it into a
sealed briefcase before re-pressurizing the airlock. That might have
provided sufficient protection against any ammonia leaking into cabin
atmosphere.

Does Dragon offer any downmass already ? when is the next dragon ?


NET Feb 22, 2014 according to NASA.gov

The spacesuit that malfunctioned in July was supposed to be down mass
on that flight. That may still be planned, even though it worked well
this time around. I imagine that the ground folk are making sure
there's space for the pump in the down manifest. That's one of the
reasons it was put in storage, I believe. (External storage, that is.)

The pressurized portion of Dragon will be filled with science racks.

I think the pump would be too big for the Soyuz return capsule even if
it hadn't been filled with ammonia; downmass on that vehicle is rather
limited due to the cramped space, IIRC. No science racks on that ride;
I don't know how many "shoeboxes" of samples they can return.

/dps




--
I have always been glad we weren't killed that night. I do not know
any particular reason, but I have always been glad.
_Roughing It_, Mark Twain


  #3  
Old December 28th 13, 04:32 AM posted to sci.space.station
snidely
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Posts: 1,303
Default Cooling loop

Remember when Snidely bragged outrageously? That was Friday:
JF Mezei wrote on 12/27/2013 :
On 13-12-27 16:30, Brian Gaff wrote:
So will they ever be able to get the old unit back to see what went wrong?
I don't see any obvious way to do it unless they want to take it apart on
orbit or something.


I doubt very much they would allow anything that had ammonia in it to go
indoors and travel with a soyuz down.

Perhaps if they could have put the unit into a sealed plastic bag, they
may have been able to bring it in the airlock and then put it into a
sealed briefcase before re-pressurizing the airlock. That might have
provided sufficient protection against any ammonia leaking into cabin
atmosphere.

Does Dragon offer any downmass already ? when is the next dragon ?


NET Feb 22, 2014 according to NASA.gov

The spacesuit that malfunctioned in July was supposed to be down mass on that
flight. That may still be planned, even though it worked well this time
around. I imagine that the ground folk are making sure there's space for the
pump in the down manifest. That's one of the reasons it was put in storage,
I believe. (External storage, that is.)

The pressurized portion of Dragon will be filled with science racks.

I think the pump would be too big for the Soyuz return capsule even if it
hadn't been filled with ammonia; downmass on that vehicle is rather limited
due to the cramped space, IIRC. No science racks on that ride; I don't know
how many "shoeboxes" of samples they can return.


2 stations flights before that: OSC's Antares (slipped from Dec 11 due
to the pump problem), and Progress 54. In between is the TDRS-L launch
on YANA5.

/dps

--
The presence of this syntax results from the fact that SQLite is really
a Tcl extension that has escaped into the wild.
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  #4  
Old December 28th 13, 09:28 AM posted to sci.space.station
Brian Gaff
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Posts: 2,312
Default Cooling loop

So how will they get it into a Dragon? Being a pressurised unit it would
mean bringing the pump in. I'm not sure it would actually fit through the
door, it certainly won't on a Progress, but I suppose if you could open an
unpressurised Dragon and then seal it and pressurise it, but it seems
rather dangerous to me, its big and heavy and not really what you would
want banging about inside a spacecraft at re entry.

Looks like a candidate for a test of an inflatable re entry system to me!

Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Snidely" wrote in message
news:mn.dc517ddcda32b4e2.127094@snitoo...
JF Mezei wrote on 12/27/2013 :
On 13-12-27 16:30, Brian Gaff wrote:
So will they ever be able to get the old unit back to see what went
wrong? I don't see any obvious way to do it unless they want to take it
apart on orbit or something.


I doubt very much they would allow anything that had ammonia in it to go
indoors and travel with a soyuz down.

Perhaps if they could have put the unit into a sealed plastic bag, they
may have been able to bring it in the airlock and then put it into a
sealed briefcase before re-pressurizing the airlock. That might have
provided sufficient protection against any ammonia leaking into cabin
atmosphere.

Does Dragon offer any downmass already ? when is the next dragon ?


NET Feb 22, 2014 according to NASA.gov

The spacesuit that malfunctioned in July was supposed to be down mass on
that flight. That may still be planned, even though it worked well this
time around. I imagine that the ground folk are making sure there's space
for the pump in the down manifest. That's one of the reasons it was put
in storage, I believe. (External storage, that is.)

The pressurized portion of Dragon will be filled with science racks.

I think the pump would be too big for the Soyuz return capsule even if it
hadn't been filled with ammonia; downmass on that vehicle is rather
limited due to the cramped space, IIRC. No science racks on that ride; I
don't know how many "shoeboxes" of samples they can return.

/dps




--
I have always been glad we weren't killed that night. I do not know any
particular reason, but I have always been glad.
_Roughing It_, Mark Twain




  #5  
Old December 28th 13, 10:43 AM posted to sci.space.station
snidely
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,303
Default Cooling loop

Brian Gaff presented the following explanation :
So how will they get it into a Dragon? Being a pressurised unit it would
mean bringing the pump in. I'm not sure it would actually fit through the
door, it certainly won't on a Progress, but I suppose if you could open an
unpressurised Dragon and then seal it and pressurise it, but it seems rather
dangerous to me, its big and heavy and not really what you would want
banging about inside a spacecraft at re entry.

Looks like a candidate for a test of an inflatable re entry system to me!


Dragon has an unpressurized section.

/dps

--
Maybe C282Y is simply one of the hangers-on, a groupie following a
future guitar god of the human genome: an allele with undiscovered
virtuosity, currently soloing in obscurity in Mom's garage.
Bradley Wertheim, theAtlantic.com, Jan 10 2013


  #7  
Old December 29th 13, 06:39 AM posted to sci.space.station
snidely
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Posts: 1,303
Default Cooling loop

After serious thinking Brian Gaff wrote :
Yes, but can it be secured within it?


I'm going to say "yes", even if that changes what pallets are setnt
aloft. Remember the cargo in that section has to be secured for
launch, too.

/dps

--
Ieri, oggi, domani


  #8  
Old December 29th 13, 09:06 PM posted to sci.space.station
snidely
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,303
Default Cooling loop

on 12/28/2013, JF Mezei supposed :
On 13-12-28 04:43, Snidely wrote:

Dragon has an unpressurized section.


Doubt very much Dragon's unpressurised section comes back to earth (and
if it does, would likely expose the downmass to melting temperatures.

Just how big is the actual failed component in the pump assembly ?
Wouldn't have thought that a pump or valve would have been that big.


Look at the pictures of the astronauts moving it around. The long
dimension seems to be about 6-8 feet, the other 2 dimensions 4-6 feet.
I think I've seen 750 kg for the mass. I'm sure you can find actual
size on the NASA web site. There may even be a cutaway drawing in some
obscure PDF.


/dps


--
I have always been glad we weren't killed that night. I do not know
any particular reason, but I have always been glad.
_Roughing It_, Mark Twain


  #9  
Old December 30th 13, 02:05 AM posted to sci.space.station
David Spain
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Posts: 2,901
Default Cooling loop

On 12/29/2013 1:32 AM, JF Mezei wrote:
On 13-12-28 04:43, Snidely wrote:

Dragon has an unpressurized section.


Doubt very much Dragon's unpressurised section comes back to earth (and
if it does, would likely expose the downmass to melting temperatures.

Yeah I agree with that.

http://www.spacex.com/dragon

The "unpressurized" section, aka the trunk, is jettisoned shortly before
atmospheric re-entry. No return path here....

Just how big is the actual failed component in the pump assembly ?
Wouldn't have thought that a pump or valve would have been that big.


If they even have the ability to further disassemble it. Well in theory
its possible with enough force to disassemble almost anything, :-) but I
think we are up against practical limits here.

Dave

  #10  
Old December 31st 13, 08:26 AM posted to sci.space.station
snidely
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Posts: 1,303
Default Cooling loop

Snidely noted that:

I imagine that the ground folk are making sure there's space for the
pump in the down manifest. That's one of the reasons it was put in storage,
I believe. (External storage, that is.)


Seems I misread or misguessed on that. Froma NASA Spaceflight News:

quote
Leaving the failed PM on the POA long-term is not desired since
engineers believe the failed PM could be re-used in the future, since
only one small component inside it (the FCV – Flow Control Valve) is
failed, and thus an external FCV could be fabricated in the future, and
connected to the PM in order to return it to service.
/quote

[url=http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2013/12/astronauts-new-pump-module-iss-eva25/]

/dps

--
Maybe C282Y is simply one of the hangers-on, a groupie following a
future guitar god of the human genome: an allele with undiscovered
virtuosity, currently soloing in obscurity in Mom's garage.
Bradley Wertheim, theAtlantic.com, Jan 10 2013


 




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