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#51
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Was there a civilization that existed 13 000 years ago?
Paul R. Mays wrote: Thats a start but theres a much longer list.... Where is solid measureable evidence to which a carbon dataing protocol can be applied? Speculations which support your speculations are not evidence. Quotations from ancient scraps are not evidence. Ancient writing could be bull****, fairytales or the truth. In the absence of solid evidence you have nothing. Bob Kolker |
#52
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Was there a civilization that existed 13 000 years ago?
"Robert J. Kolker" wrote in message ... Paul R. Mays wrote: As for the not finding evidence that is completely convincing I can fathom the alteration of the land masses of today that could explain the lack of dateable evidence. snipped everything in the middle Failure to produce hard convincing evidence will cause you to hanker after Floods of biblical proportions. That is a stupid, stupid thing to do. Bob Kolker both of you (paul and bob) should possibly consider consulting a environmental geology handbook before speculating any further on glaciation episodes or their effects. you both are half-right on many of your points, just a few little gaps in historical information that could clear up some of your own questions is all. :-) |
#53
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Was there a civilization that existed 13 000 years ago?
"Robert J. Kolker" wrote in message ...
Paul R. Mays wrote: Thats a start but theres a much longer list.... Where is solid measureable evidence to which a carbon dataing protocol can be applied? Speculations which support your speculations are not evidence. Quotations from ancient scraps are not evidence. Ancient writing could be bull****, fairytales or the truth. In the absence of solid evidence you have nothing. Bob Kolker someone from one of the science newsgroups ought to weigh in here with some authority, but isn't correlated carbon dating extremely accurate for this time period? edkookradian speculations are way off the mark here. |
#54
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Was there a civilization that existed 13 000 years ago?
"Robert J. Kolker" wrote in message ... Paul R. Mays wrote: As for the not finding evidence that is completely convincing I can fathom the alteration of the land masses of today that could explain the lack of dateable evidence. You could also chalk it up to the Glacier Fairy too. You cannot substitute an unsubstantiated guess for a fact. Lack of evidence is just that. And until the evidence stops lacking your speculations have no basis whatsoever. There's a good argument that the catastrophic event that caused the DNA Bottle neck was also the trigger event of the last Ice Age and rewarm cycle. That was a super volcano in Indonesia http://zyx.org/TOBA.html around 75 k ago... Now If a reasonable civilization were to form after the event they have 40 to 55 k years to develop a city based culture. Now that culture has limited availability to place cities... The northern and southern hemispheres are Ice covered. The mountains along the equatorial areas are ice capped and 500 to 800 feet higher above sea level than today. The coast line and all river systems are in vastly different locations . Most land that is usable would be in the low lands with smaller hamlets and villages scattered to the edges of the ice fields and even on the ice fields. Now along about 30 to 20 k ago the ice receded and this happened very quick which makes me think there was a second catastrophic event of some type. You can think anything you want to. But no one will take you seriously until you produce evidence. No evidence leaves you ten feet in the air with nothing to stand on. This melt changed the face of the planet. You are invokaing a Flood maybe? Where is the evidence? You should not assert as fact anything for which evidence is lacking. No evidence, no fact. It is as simple as that Failure to produce hard convincing evidence will cause you to hanker after Floods of biblical proportions. That is a stupid, stupid thing to do. Bob Kolker There is a great deal of evidence... but of course the concept of convincing is another thing all together... I will not go through all the evidence but a bit of reading will give massive amounts... Now is that evidence convincing to you? I have no idea... I have no idea of what your capacity to dot the I's are, but they seem a bit limited... A lot of people have seen enough evidence to be convinced... A lot... And of course I could give a **** if your convinced or not... Someone asked if I anyone thought there was a civilization back before 13 k and I have read enough and seen enough evidence to convince me that we are missing something big around 10 to 20 k ago... As far as a great flood of biblical proportions... That's a absolute provable event.. Not quite as the bible mentions, along with many other cultures that predate biblical mention of a flood myth.... If you lived in a population area of say 10 million people scattered over 50 miles and the sea rises to cover the region with 500 feet of sea water I might consider that a flood of biblical proportions if I lived on Main Street... Melt just the North American Ice sheet of 30 k ago and main street is under 100 feet.. add the European and southern sheets and you have a flood that still today covers a large percentage of what would have been usable lands before the melt... Again.. I suggest you read a bit and then explain what your limited view of what constitutes evidence is and then some may be able to point you to the evidence they consider valid... http://www.grahamhancock.com/library/bookshop.php Has a bunch of titles to get you started... Now .. If you make the choice to not read and research the evidentiary claims provided by at least 20 authors then say "hey everyone, look at me, I don't seek evidence, I don't wish to look for evidence, I don't want to even be presented an Idea that I have to research, so that means there is no evidence..." then don't expect me or others on some minor news server to spoon feed you every little piece of the large body of evidence that you have no idea exists.... Paul R. Mays ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Some where within the Quantum State Http://Paul.Mays.Com http://paul.mays.com/resume.html "The skeptic will say, 'It may well be true that this system of equations is reasonable from a logical standpoint, but this does not prove that it corresponds to nature.' You are right, dear skeptic. Experience alone can decide on truth. " - Albert Einstein |
#55
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Was there a civilization that existed 13 000 years ago?
"Robert J. Kolker" wrote in message ... Paul R. Mays wrote: Cities under a few hundred feet of water and 90 or so feet of ocean debris can wipe a few traces.. and how much of a trace would you say a 200 foot tall stone building would leave... after being scraped over by a couple miles of ice.... for a 1000 years or so... You have not produced the means to distinguish between no such city ever, and a city wiped clean. In the absence of evidence you have not a square yard to stand on. All you offer us if feeble speculations not backed up by anything other than your foolish fantisizing. Bob Kolker I'm not the expert and I make no claims.. I have read and considered many areas of studies and I have found reasonable evidence provided by many writers that actually got off their asses ( unlike you) and researched the possibilities... Just because you have a limited mental ability to comprehend evidence presented by many well informed and respected researchers does not mean that a simple layman as I would waste my time repeating the writings of those that have spent their lives actually doing the research in order to spoon feed your knowledge void. http://www.guardians.net/hawass/remnants.htm http://www.grahamhancock.com/news/index.php http://www.grahamhancock.com/library/bookshop.php http://www.macon.com/mld/macon/news/nation/2962443.htm http://archives.mundoacuatico.com/oc...iousstones.pdf http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...kencities.html http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/1923794.stm http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/...in522626.shtml http://www.chinapost.com.tw/detail.asp?ID=32604&GRP=A http://www.morien-institute.org/yonaguni.html http://www.atlantisrising.com/issue1...apanunder.html That's a start but there's a much longer list.... |
#56
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Was there a civilization that existed 13 000 years ago?
In article , DrPostman
wrote: On 10 Oct 2003 07:06:28 -0700, (Jack) wrote: the same glaciers that flash froze all those mammoths? Devious fiends! I demand an FBI investigation into this stonewalling! -=-=-=-=- |
#58
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Was there a civilization that existed 13 000 years ago?
Paul R. Mays wrote: "Robert J. Kolker" wrote in message ... Paul R. Mays wrote: As for the not finding evidence that is completely convincing I can fathom the alteration of the land masses of today that could explain the lack of dateable evidence. You could also chalk it up to the Glacier Fairy too. You cannot substitute an unsubstantiated guess for a fact. Lack of evidence is just that. And until the evidence stops lacking your speculations have no basis whatsoever. There's a good argument that the catastrophic event that caused the DNA Bottle neck was also the trigger event of the last Ice Age and rewarm cycle. That was a super volcano in Indonesia http://zyx.org/TOBA.html around 75 k ago... Now If a reasonable civilization were to form after the event they have 40 to 55 k years to develop a city based culture. Now that culture has limited availability to place cities... The northern and southern hemispheres are Ice covered. The mountains along the equatorial areas are ice capped and 500 to 800 feet higher above sea level than today. The coast line and all river systems are in vastly different locations . Most land that is usable would be in the low lands with smaller hamlets and villages scattered to the edges of the ice fields and even on the ice fields. Now along about 30 to 20 k ago the ice receded and this happened very quick which makes me think there was a second catastrophic event of some type. You can think anything you want to. But no one will take you seriously until you produce evidence. No evidence leaves you ten feet in the air with nothing to stand on. This melt changed the face of the planet. You are invokaing a Flood maybe? Where is the evidence? You should not assert as fact anything for which evidence is lacking. No evidence, no fact. It is as simple as that Failure to produce hard convincing evidence will cause you to hanker after Floods of biblical proportions. That is a stupid, stupid thing to do. Bob Kolker There is a great deal of evidence... but of course the concept of convincing is another thing all together... Ancient writings are NOT evidence. Evidence is physical and measurable. I ask you for the beef, and you keep giving me baloney I will not go through all the evidence but a bit of reading will give massive amounts... Now is that evidence convincing to you? I have no idea... If it isn't physical and it isn't measurable it is BULL****. Is that plain enough? You want proofs of Floods. Find human habitations buried under dozens or hundreds of feet of alluvial mud residue. That is evidence. Bob Kolker |
#59
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Was there a civilization that existed 13 000 years ago?
Paul R. Mays wrote: I'm not the expert and I make no claims.. I have read and considered many areas of studies and I have found reasonable evidence provided by many writers that actually got off their asses ( unlike you) and researched the possibilities... Where is the physical evidence? Can you cite it. Is it vetted by independent researchers. A simple yes or no will do. If yes, cite it. I want stuff that appears in reputable refereed journals (Velikovsky types are not wanted). I wan't stuff that is vetted and verified by at least two independent researchers or groups of researchers. Findings with physical measurements and chemical analysis are particularly welcome. Findings made by reputable archeologists, paleontologist and geoligsts are welcome. Findings by crackpots looking for Noah's Ark is not welcome. If there is isn't a carbon dating protocol buried in the evidence, then it is probably bogus. Bob Kolker |
#60
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Was there a civilization that existed 13 000 years ago?
"Robert J. Kolker" wrote in message ... Paul R. Mays wrote: Thats a start but theres a much longer list.... Where is solid measureable evidence to which a carbon dataing protocol can be applied? Speculations which support your speculations are not evidence. Quotations from ancient scraps are not evidence. Ancient writing could be bull****, fairytales or the truth. In the absence of solid evidence you have nothing. Bob Kolker By that short writing its obvious you have no idea of the subject.. There's a bit more that "Quotations from ancient scraps" But you'll just continue to rant like a buffoon instead of actually reading the afore mentioned reading material Here's a few items you might read ... but I kinda doubt it... http://www.guardians.net/hawass/remnants.htm http://www.grahamhancock.com/news/index.php http://www.grahamhancock.com/library/bookshop.php http://www.macon.com/mld/macon/news/nation/2962443.htm http://archives.mundoacuatico.com/oc...iousstones.pdf http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...kencities.html http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/1923794.stm http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/...in522626.shtml http://www.chinapost.com.tw/detail.asp?ID=32604&GRP=A http://www.morien-institute.org/yonaguni.html http://www.atlantisrising.com/issue1...apanunder.html |
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